San Diego

[HalaMadrid]

If San Diego is on anyone's list, and really, I'm no one to speak here, but I don't think there is anything wrong with just "San Diego Chivas". I mean you already have the Padres. It wouldn't be too weird.

And it passes the "Is this name better than 'Mutiny' ?" test.

[sequeira16]

Vergara said MLS will pare the list of possible expansion cities to three finalists, "then we'll talk to each city to see which one would be best for Chivas." He hopes to have the entire deal completed in "60 to 90 days."

ROTFLMAO!!! what a bunch of suckers we are. how many times have we been told "60 to 90 days?". sorry san diego, we were just given the kiss of death.

[Lithium858]

Originally posted by yellowbismark
Well, we're not Italy, England or Spain either. At least with the name Chivas, it comes from the owner of that team himself. To me, that's better than trying to copy from names like Real, Racing, Athletic for the sake of "posing". Yeah but more than one team has those names. If Chivas were the name then everyone (mostly Mexicans) would complain that they are trying to be like the original team just to get popular. Or they would say that they are copying the Guadalajara club. That's why I prefer those Euro names than "Chivas". Although I do agree that the team should be the Sockers. And as you said, that won't happen.

[empennage]

HOLY SHIT!!!!!

I quit paying attention to MLS for a few days and look what I miss. I might just have to find a way to move back to San Diego if this ever happens. I'll most definitely be making the 5 hour drive to go to some games.

Wow. Of all the expansion ideas I've seen kicked around for SD, this one has a lot of the pieces falling into place.


* Qualcomm stadium is available
* Lots of latinos in SD
* An investor willing to spend money


I really think it could be feasible.

Thinking long term, should we start talking about builing/expanding a SSS??

[Greddy]

If i ever see an MLS team with "Real" in the title, I will stop paying attention to the league alltogether. Putting S.C. behind the name is one thing, but blatently copying names like that another. I might grudgingly accept it if they where to use "Royal" (which is the english meaning of "Real"), but hopefully that will never happen.

Also, about Vergara and the Chivas, I believe he has already stated that the team will NOT be following their Mexican only policy with the american franchise. Anyways, wouldn't that be against some workplace discrimination laws.

[kasai]

Well at least for SD in 60~90 days a lot more will be made clear about the situation regarding the Chargers. Their second 90-day window closes at the end of August. The city council is on vacation starting tomorrow until September, so something will need to come down today.

The Chargers want to put a measure for a new stadium on the 2006 ballot. Assume it happens and there is a new stadium by 2010, that would be a big benefit for MLS. A new stadium can be built like the one in New England that will have soccer specifications in mind. This is a decent solution until a SSS can be built.

Another way things may work is that the city council rejects the Chargers and decides to sue to keep the team. This is always a bad PR move and I expect fans to stop supporting the team like they did in Houston if this were to ever happen. In one way or another by around 2010 either the city will have a new large stadium for football that can accommodate soccer or the city will not have a football team and will do almost anything to replace it.

The Q is a good short term solution for MLS. I think things are looking decent for the SD Chivas or whatever we want to call them.

[Eric Bekins]

I really don't like the name Chivas or Goats, and I would hope we get some other name. Vergara is also supposed to be buying Atletico Madrid, so why not Atletico San Diego? I could get into that. I'm sure the initials ASD could be made into an interesting badge or shield too. You could even keep the red and white stripes. I think Atletico Madrid has those colors too.

I like the name Atletico San Diego.

[BulaJacket]

Originally posted by Greddy
Also, about Vergara and the Chivas, I believe he has already stated that the team will NOT be following their Mexican only policy with the american franchise. Anyways, wouldn't that be against some workplace discrimination laws. I hope that's true. An exclusive policy would be an abhoration of this league and totally against this country. I could concede all mexicans as the internationals, fine. Although a fine line, filling the international slots with mexicans isn't a big deal. But your american slots can't be just hispanics. That is unamerican and discrimination based on race. If there were a team that said they wanted all Anglos....every civil rights group in America and their mother would be jumping on MLS.....

Originally posted by Eric Bekins
I really don't like the name Chivas or Goats, and I would hope we get some other name. Vergara is also supposed to be buying Atletico Madrid, so why not Atletico San Diego? I could get into that. I'm sure the initials ASD could be made into an interesting badge or shield too. You could even keep the red and white stripes. I think Atletico Madrid has those colors too.

I like the name Atletico San Diego.
I also believe it shouldn't be Chivas USA, rather reflective of the city of San Diego if that is where he ends up, even if it is only San Diego Chivas, just like it is Guadalajara's Chivas. I do like the Atletico San Diego idea, but Vergara and MLS are tailoring to the mexican population in this situation, not the spanish or european, so I'd doubt it'd happen.
Originally posted by Greddy
If i ever see an MLS team with "Real" in the title, I will stop paying attention to the league alltogether. Putting S.C. behind the name is one thing, but blatently copying names like that another. I might grudgingly accept it if they where to use "Royal" (which is the english meaning of "Real"), but hopefully that will never happen.What about arsenal? ;) Case in point: Detroit. If they were to get a team, that would be the perfect name for them (b/c of history), but that is a different thread. As for "Real", I don't think I'm really in favor or against it per se, but a team with Real in front of it in the right situation could draw some fans of the european leagues (just like the Arsenal name) who don't pay attention to MLS, and that I like.

[Stilger]

What about arsenal? Case in point: Detroit. If they were to get a team, that would be the perfect name for them (b/c of history), but that is a different thread. As for "Real", I don't think I'm really in favor or against it per se, but a team with Real in front of it in the right situation could draw some fans of the european leagues (just like the Arsenal name) who don't pay attention to MLS, and that I like.

Arsenal is a place in England. The team is called the Arsenal Gunners, or just Arsenal. The same way we have the Los Angeles Galaxy, or just Las Angeles.

If Detroit was called the Detroit Arsenal, then they would be THE Arsenal. See the difference? One is a place, the other would be a thing.

[Gareth]

Arsenal were the Woolwich Arsenal when they were first formed. Woolwich is the borough of London where their players lived, and they worked at the munitions factory that made among other things Cannon - (therefore their informal nickname "Gunners"). As they became more professionally oriented, they moved from their original home and dropped the Woolwich - but still kept the Arsenal.

My point is that every team in England has a similar story behind their nicknames and the development of the team name - it has some history and some logic, not some marketing genius trying to tap a specific demographic. That being said - San Diego Chivas is my best bet. The whole point in bringing in Vergara is the credibility in the eyes of the Mexican community towards with the Chivas organization. Im sure we have run into as many Mexisnobs as Eurosnobs in the San Diego area. My girlfriend is Mexican American and, like many of her friends, is excited about the prospect of a Chivas run team coming to town where most of her friends wouldn't walk across the road to go see the Rapids or the Revs. The fans will come out, but the biggest trap you run into is that you are relying on standard of play to keep them coming. Thats hard to with the communist management techniques of player personnel in MLS.

[Eric Bekins]

Originally posted by BulaJacket
[B]I hope that's true. An exclusive policy would be an abhoration of this league and totally against this country. I could concede all mexicans as the internationals, fine. Although a fine line, filling the international slots with mexicans isn't a big deal. But your american slots can't be just hispanics. That is unamerican and discrimination based on race. If there were a team that said they wanted all Anglos....every civil rights group in America and their mother would be jumping on MLS.....
According to this article; http://www.milenio.com/deportes/nota.asp?id=20833 Vergara is quite proud of the fact that he plan on using only hispanic players, and that Spanish will only be spoken on the team. He seems to think that if the hispanics are US citizens then he's not discriminating against anyone. I think he's dead wrong, and I can't wait for the players union, as well as every other civl rights group in the country, to weigh in on the matter. Check out this quote:

" “Nos vamos arriesgar y vamos a hacer un proyecto para impulsar a los jóvenes, los extranjeros serÃ_an mexicanos y la idea es que el resto del plantel sean hispanos, sólo se hablará español en ese equipoâ€�.

¿HabrÃ_a posibilidad de que no le permitieran esta situación las autoridades?

No, es algo que ya hemos estudiado, no estarÃ_amos discriminando a nadie, los hispanos de allá son estadunidenses antes que nada. "

"We're going to take the risk and we're going to make it our plan to attract the youth; the foreigners will be Mexicans, and the idea is that the rest of the team will be hispanics, only Spanish will be spoken on the team.

Will there be a possibility that this situation won't be permitted by the authorities?

No, it's something that we've already studied, we won't be discriminating anyone, Hispanics over there are US citizens above all. " (Rought translation mine.)

We still don't have confirmation that this will be in San Diego. Personally, I think this would work much better in Los Angeles. You could have the two rival teams who's fan base doesn't cross over too much. And you could leave San Diego or any other city with the possibility of having it's own team that could market to the whole community, not just one segment. I know there are those in San Diego who are desparate to have MLS, and I am too, but I still don't think I could get into a Chivas San Diego unless Mr. Vergara does more to reach out to *all* of San Diego, if it really is San Diego that gets this team.

[BulaJacket]

Originally posted by Stilger
Arsenal is a place in England. The team is called the Arsenal Gunners, or just Arsenal. The same way we have the Los Angeles Galaxy, or just Las Angeles.

If Detroit was called the Detroit Arsenal, then they would be THE Arsenal. See the difference? One is a place, the other would be a thing.

You are wrong.

Gareth already explained, so I'm not....

Originally posted by Gareth
My point is that every team in England has a similar story behind their nicknames and the development of the team name - it has some history and some logic, not some marketing genius trying to tap a specific demographic.

And that would be my point with Detroit...from their history of producing weapons and vehicles during war time.

[kasai]

Rumor is that whatever city gets the Chivas expansion team, it will begin operations in 2004. If that is SD, I believe that to be a mistake. 2004 is going to be the year of the Padres and even Chargers. The Pads will be drawing huge crowds that will compete too much with the Chivas. Also the Chargers will be pushing hard for a good season in their bid to get a stadium measure on the ballot.

2005 would give enough time to create a good team and to get their marketing going.

what do you all think?

[christopher d]

Originally posted by kasai
what do you all think? Eh...

The Padres have sucked, suck, and will continue to suck for so long and at such unbelievable levels that I doubt the "Litter Box" is going to save them. Especially not after they get relegated back to the PCL. (Whoops! Wrong thread). They'll get novelty crowds through Flag day or so, and then reality will set in: "Hey, these guys still suck". I'll probably try to get a ticket or two after the buzz dies down (like around the 4th of July, after they're officially eliminated from the wild-card race).

The Chargers have performed similarly, and are (for all intents and purposes) a lame-duck franchise. I'm a big Football fan, too, but I'd certainly hold the door for those bums on their way out of the county, especially after the way Susan Golding and I have bought 1/4 of the tickets they've sold since the guarantee.

I think they're really on to something with the Chivas de San Diego idea. Two rivalries: SD-LA, and US-MEX. A large soccer fan base, with few viewing options. If they were to market heavily and wisely to the Mexican population here, Chivas de San Diego's first game could wind up being the event that gets MLS past viability and on to success. In that light, get them on the field ASAP.

Of course, I could wind up as a quote for a future issue of "Three-Six-One".

[FlashMan]

At the risk of being non-hyperbolic, I think the Padres will probably play .500 ball next year or better, and be on the upswing for a few years. Barring major injuries of course, which is always a possibility. The initial point is a good one: the Padres next year, moving into Petco, will be receiving an enormous amount of media attention and also a large amount of the public's entertainment dollar. So it's not ideal.

Of course if the Pads were still goign to be playing in the Q, we wouldn't be getting Chivas de San Diego at all, so it's sort of a pointless argument in the end.

The Chargers won't be receiving much more scrutiny than usual, at least not until the new stadium deal comes down. Which, by the way, could very well involved the tearing down of the Q, which would leave Chivas de San Diego where?

[kasai]

Ok, my take on the PADs is pretty much the same as Flashman's. They should be a decent team next year especially if they sign a couple of key free agents. The key will be the young pitchers improving from this season. If that were to happens then they should be able to compete in the NL West. Consider the Giants and Diamondbacks have many older players. Also the Dodgers generally suck.

As for MLS coming to town, I think the key to succeeding in the SD market is to get the Mexican population to the games. The ratings for the MLS allstar game in SD were the lowest of any sporting event on this weekend. A 0.4 and 1 share. MLS is just not captivating the Latino nor Non-Latino population.

Chivas will need to begin play in 2005 or beyond so they do not compete with the Padres. They will need a strong marketing campaign in SD and TJ. They will need some recognizable Mexican players on their squad. Hopefully though, it will not be an all Mexican side. That is just not the way things work here even though an all Mexican side would probably appeal more to the Mexican population here.

[empennage]

One question that I have is why is everyone assuming that they'll play at the Q?

Why couldn't the team play at USD? The Dallas Burn are currently playing at a high school, so it is certainly no unheard for MLS to play at such a small sized venue. Perhaps even more temporary seating could be brought to increase the size of the stadium.

Some things that USD has got going for it:

- The Spirit play there, and there could be double headers.

-Good sized soccer field, and a stadium that is already built for soccer.

- I'm assuming that rent would be cheaper there, because there would be less overhead.


It could definitely be a good temporary solution, especially if they could increase the size with temp seating. Although that might not be possible, because if I remember correctly the area around the stadium is pretty small.

It's certainly worth looking at as an option for the SD Chivas.

[jscott23]

There is no way in hell an MLS team will play at USD. First of all the university barely tolerates the women. Do you really think the doicese is going to put up with rowdy Chivas fans on campus? Secondly, the capacity is just above 7000 with no way to add even 3000 more on the open end of the field. Vergara has to draw 15-20K just to break even. And he has to get some parking revenue, which is not available at Torero. They have one lot for 150+ cars and everybody else parks wherever they can. Finally, there will never be alcohol on campus and without beer sales you can't make MLS pencil long-term. The Q is a short-term solution until he can get a land lease from the city to build a SSS, and there are some good spots for that. I still think he is going to Houston.

[empennage]

Originally posted by jscott23
There is no way in hell an MLS team will play at USD.
Well, I wouldn't say no way in hell because Dallas plays at a high school on artificial turf. But, I think you are right, USD is not a good option.

[Jose L. Couso]

I just got back from San Diego.

I liked the city and loved the weather (It was around a high of 75 and a low of 65 every day we were there with NO HUMIDITY!).

I think it will be a good place for expansion.

Every day I saw people playing soccer.

There was even a whole page of soccer news (either on Tuesday or Wednesday). Which is more than I have seen in NYC on game days and I have been there quite often.