Ethics Question

[pacref]

I need to know how to handle a real ethics problem that has raised itself twice in the last few weeks.

The problem is interference with the game by the referee admins and/or assignors. In both cases these people have stopped the games to berate, criticsize and correct the action of junior ARs during matches. Both times I have been the SAR on the matches and have had to explain the actions to the benches.

The latest time this happened was yesterday. Young CR on on a competitive U12 Girls match. The Ref Admin for the club stopped the match, at the request of the local coaches, to admonish the JAR for taking down his flag for offside after the keeper gained possesion. The CR's pregame instructed him to do that. The CR politely told the admin to go to the bleachers or leave the area.

The other time the local club assignor /admin stopped the match to do the same thing to another JAR at the request of the local team. Ostensibly because he made a few "bad" offside calls. Again I was the SAR and had to explain.

At half time of last night's incident I gave the the local club Admin my opinion of how he had underminded the credibility of the whole crew, me included.

In the earlier incident I didnt say anything. I was new to the area and didnt want to "make waves"

Should I report this up to the SRA or SRC or just let it go?

I firmly believe that both of these instances were a disservice to the whole crew and their credibility.

[Vasco]

Yes, I would report them to the state SRA.

If they want to critize a ref for training or whatever, that is half time or after the game. not during the game.

They should be suspended for their actions. They should know better.


As a rec director i am involved with Ref training as well. On field training is done at the half, or you put another ref on the field to shadow them from the start of the half.

You don;t stop the game.

[Wreave]

Obviously, that behavior from Ref Admins, Assessors, Instructors, Assignors, etc. during the game is not only totally unacceptable, but also counter-productive. It doesn't improve refereeing, it drives refs out of the game. If someone had done that to me when I was starting out, I may well have told them to take a long walk off a short pier and found another way to spend my Saturdays. For a youth ref especially, this is completely out of bounds.

All that having been said, like anything else, you have to weigh your personal feelings on the matter against the possible outcomes you might obtain from making a complaint. You noted you're new to the area - rocking the boat may make things hard for you. I'm certain that some folks on this board will rail against me for such a wishy-washy comment, but the fact is you can't make change from the outside, which is where you might end up. So be careful with whatever action you take, and look for opportunities to change from within.

[Ref Flunkie]

Agreed, report it to the SRA. This can not be tolerated.

[Vasco]

i would agree that it could cause some problems.

I would also figure that North texas YS would suspend them for what they are doing.

Your also right that as a youth ref, i would take a walk also.

[USSF REF]

That kind of action is completely out of bounds.

Were these club officials? Or were they indepenent of the teams and associated with the local Referee's association?

If they were the former, this action CANNOT be tolerated and the only responsible thing to do is report their behavior. Those actions are not only going embaress the referee, but they discredit the referee squad to all of the spectators for the rest of the match who now have more ammo to heckle the JAR with (who is likely on that side of the pitch). The actions also are an attempt to sway the judgement of the AR into favor of the team who's club-referee representative was yelling at him, in fear it would happen again. If I was the JAR I would have walked off if the Referee didn't have the coach remove that person from sight and sound of the field.

If it was the later, that is still no good, but the issue is then less of swaying the JAR in a competetive environment to one that deals with causing damage to the refereeing team's credibility in that match (and possibly others) and an unfair interuption to the game which is for the player's not the Referee instructional program.

[pacref]

...You noted you're new to the area - rocking the boat may make things hard for you. I'm certain that some folks on this board will rail against me for such a wishy-washy comment, but the fact is you can't make change from the outside, which is where you might end up. So be careful with whatever action you take, and look for opportunities to change from within.

I personally am not worried about being blackballed. I hold three USSF Credentials so I have done my part and I am ready to retire. My big concern is for th young gentleman on center last night who had the guts to stand up to the admin.

[Nashvillian]

I agree that stopping the game was ridiculous. But maybe you could suggest to the "stopper" that he simply take a few minutes to shadow the AR in question and give him a few pointers. Then ease into the subject of how long to keep the flag up on an offside call. Since your main concern is the retention of the young referee, surely the stopper will share that concern and be somewhat receptive to another way to handle it. (Well, maybe not "surely"... but "likely.")

[david58]

I agree that stopping the game was ridiculous. But maybe you could suggest to the "stopper" that he simply take a few minutes to shadow the AR in question and give him a few pointers. Then ease into the subject of how long to keep the flag up on an offside call. Since your main concern is the retention of the young referee, surely the stopper will share that concern and be somewhat receptive to another way to handle it. (Well, maybe not "surely"... but "likely.")

If the kids were getting that wrong, where was their training?

I would have been PISSED if someone stopped the match I was CR on to work on one of the AR's. Totally out of bounds. The stopper should have been told to go sit in the stands or go home - the arrangement of "shadowing" should be set up before the match - NEVER as a result of something like this incident.

Unbelievable.

And I'm afraid that after a public humiliation like this, retention of the young ref may have been made impossible.

[refmike]

I agree that stopping the game was ridiculous. But maybe you could suggest to the "stopper" that he simply take a few minutes to shadow the AR in question and give him a few pointers. Then ease into the subject of how long to keep the flag up on an offside call. Since your main concern is the retention of the young referee, surely the stopper will share that concern and be somewhat receptive to another way to handle it. (Well, maybe not "surely"... but "likely.")

You missed the point that the AR had been instructed in pregame that if the ball went to the keeper, he should lower the flag and allow play to continue. This is not an error, it is a specific instruction from the CR. A better instruction would be to wait and see if the keeper gets the ball first and raise the flag only if the OP player actually interferred with the keeper but in any case, the AR did nothing wrong.

[Nashvillian]

Well, you're right, RefMike. We're really dealing with two issues: stopping the game to "berate, criticize and correct" the AR and, secondly, berating, criticizing and correcting when he had done nothing wrong.

I was only addressing the first issue.

[cdin]

I think it is also important to remember that as a referee team you are responcible for the administration of that game, and that there is no higher authority. If the club assignor, the SRA, or Brian Hall is at the game, great, but they are still only a spectator. If they try to inturupt a game in progress, you politely warn them and kick them out if they persist.

I understand that this is difficult for a young referee. That is why when I ref with a younger crew, I as an adult try to protect them from coaches, parents and any other adult that gets overly critical of there performance. Then if I think they made a mistake or could improve in some area I talk to them privately.

[Claymore]

Show up at the next league meeting, interrupt the proceedings, and berate HIM. ;)

Seriously, he has no jurisdiction during the game. If he wants to talk to you afterwards, fine.

Personally, I'd make it perfectly clear that I'd never set foot on the field for one of his games ever again if he tried pulling that stunt.

[jkc313]

[QUOTE=david58]If the kids were getting that wrong, where was their training?
We're taught in Procedured to lower the flag once the defenders have possession so even if the CR didn't go over this, the AR acted properly by lowering the flag once the keeper got the ball. Report these guys to the SRA asap

[cdin]

We're taught in Procedured to lower the flag once the defenders have possession so even if the CR didn't go over this, the AR acted properly by lowering the flag once the keeper got the ball. Report these guys to the SRA asap
One think I have learned during my referee career is that having a USSF badge doesn't mean you know what you are doing. I would expect an assignor to be a little bit better but I have met some bad assignors also.

Every year I meet someone who has been reffing 10+ years and insists that any contact between the ball and the hand is handling or some other asinine situation.

[IASocFan]

...Should I report this up to the SRA or SRC or just let it go?

I firmly believe that both of these instances were a disservice to the whole crew and their credibility.

I hope you don't just let it go. If you want to be part of the solution, you should work first with the admin or assignor. If you don't get anywhere with them or don't have the time, at least report it to someone who can help solve the problem.

Sometimes with volunteers, you get what you pay for! However, I usually have more problems with those who are being paid! :rolleyes:

[macheath]

(snip)...

The latest time this happened was yesterday. Young CR on on a competitive U12 Girls match. The Ref Admin for the club stopped the match, at the request of the local coaches... (snip)

Stop right there. The club's Ref Administrator did this at the request of the coaches??? Report, report, report. And report the coaches as well, to the league and the club.

[Law5]

This is way over the top. USSF Code of Ethics: "(5) I will always strive to achieve maximum team work with my fellow officials. (6) I will be loyal to my fellow officials and never knowingly promote criticism of them." There are some other clauses that may, arguably, also have been violated in this situation. Don't let it go.

[pacref]

Reported it to the SRA, he forwarded it to the Area Admin who was one of the people in question. Who proceeded to rationalize that there was nothing wrong with what he did.

Seeing that it was going to go nowhere, I told them to drop the issue. I was afraid there may be some retribution.

Looks like Chicago isnt the only place that Referee politics run rampant.

[USSF REF]

That is some BS!!! :mad:

I don't even know what to say... yet.