Handling: "Natural arm position" changes at different ages?

[Ref Flunkie]

Ok this may be a real bizarre question, but it was my first game of the season, so I'm lucky if I remember how to spell S-O-C-C-E-R.

Anyways, your standard U-14B game....good players, not great. So the ball is bouncing in the PA of blue team and a blue defender attempts to clear the ball but TOTALLY misses. His kicking motion spins him and his arm, which is out from his body probably at an angle between 7-8 o'clock, hits the ball (reasonably hard) off to the side of the area. Of course I got the "hand ball" yelling, and to be honest I was more shocked then anything to see it and did not call a PK. After the game, I broke down the play in my head. Ok, did the kicker intentionally handle the ball. No. Did the ball "play the hand"? No, not really. Was the arm in an un-natural position? Not really for what he was doing, ESPECIALLY considering the skill/age level. On the basis of this, I thought the call was fine (obviously, I could have sold it either way I'm sure). I know some of the folks who do youth games run into these wild, flailing kids who are not the most coordinated folks on the planet...do you, or should we, as referees take this into account when judging handling? Obviously you can't overlook an arm at the 10 o'clock position, or one that is obviously used to settle the ball....but in cases where the kid is just uncoordinated....do we punish them for that? Sorry if this is trivial, but like I said, it's the first game of the season :).

[Wreave]

I'd rather have been in your position - not having made the call - than in my position on Saturday. In a U19 game, my AR flagged handling in the PA. I was screened from the ball, but I could tell by the look on this face that he regretted the flag. However, I had already blown the whistle. At the half, he told me that the player was watching the ball and had plenty of time to move his arm out of the way, but didn't.

Someone said - I think on this forum - if you never called handling again, you'd be right 90% of the time.

In your case, sounds like a good call. In general, tough call. How tightly have you been calling the game? What has the standard been (or what standard would you like to set)? No easy answers on this one - but I don't think you expected any.

[Ref Flunkie]

I'd rather have been in your position - not having made the call - than in my position on Saturday. In a U19 game, my AR flagged handling in the PA. I was screened from the ball, but I could tell by the look on this face that he regretted the flag. However, I had already blown the whistle. At the half, he told me that the player was watching the ball and had plenty of time to move his arm out of the way, but didn't.

Someone said - I think on this forum - if you never called handling again, you'd be right 90% of the time.

In your case, sounds like a good call. In general, tough call. How tightly have you been calling the game? What has the standard been (or what standard would you like to set)? No easy answers on this one - but I don't think you expected any.

Yeah it is hard to do the "you make the call" stuff here, but at that point in the game, it was 6-0 for the defending team and I think I may have called one handling call for a kid who had his arms out at his side which he used to settle a ball down. The game was pretty clean by that point, but you could tell the attacking team was getting frustrated because they were clearly overpowered in this game. The fact that them and their parents were complaining about the refereeing when their team was getting outplayed was laughable in itself, but the team wanting a cheap goal on a play that clearly a debatable call to say the least was sad.

However, I was curious as to how the handling calls of referees here adjust from youth to adult matches (or low vs. higher skill level playres) since many of us do a wide spectrum of games.

[macheath]

Yeah it is hard to do the "you make the call" stuff here, but at that point in the game, it was 6-0 for the defending team and I think I may have called one handling call for a kid who had his arms out at his side which he used to settle a ball down. The game was pretty clean by that point, but you could tell the attacking team was getting frustrated because they were clearly overpowered in this game. The fact that them and their parents were complaining about the refereeing when their team was getting outplayed was laughable in itself, but the team wanting a cheap goal on a play that clearly a debatable call to say the least was sad.

However, I was curious as to how the handling calls of referees here adjust from youth to adult matches (or low vs. higher skill level playres) since many of us do a wide spectrum of games.

Sounds like your call was fine. On the broader question, I tighten it up with the age and skill level of each team, but it's hard to give an exact metric. I think that at most upper travel or higher level games, the situation you described could very well be called. A skilled player could execute this move and make it look "accidental." Since the "ball hit the arm," and it sounds non-trivial (don't mean in terms of the scoreline, but in the impact on the play in question), a good candidate for a call at a higher level of play.

[Chas (Psyatika)]

It was a very good call as described, good job...i could see most people getting that wrong :)

Another referee i work with (AYSO Advanced) usually tells me to call handling a little more for this age (i work with him in U14G), but unfortunately i generally call handling for the U14s the same way i would for older children and adults...the only exception being that i generally let the handling go if the U14 girls put their arms up instinctively on a hard kick to protect their...erm...developing bodies (my girlfriend says it's extremely painful, so i suppose i could understand wanting to protect that area. We see males protect potentially painful regions of their bodies on free kicks all the time). Although on floating balls where there isn't much power involved, i call the handling.

I've changed my mind. THIS is the worst post ever!

[Ref Flunkie]

Thanks, at least it doesn't sound like I was totally off base. It was just one of those fluke plays, and I think more then anything with handeling, it needs to be something that isn't a fluke.