Klinsmann has decided: Germany's number 1 is...

[BayernWake]

I forgot to add something:

It's a quite good moment to annouce this decision, isn't it? The day before our important game against Bremen, which can change the odds of championship outcome against us! Thanks Flipper, that's really fair! :mad:

Is Olli playing tomorrow? If so, maybe he'll be even more enraged than he normally is and he'll channel that anger into a clean sheet.

[Duncan Idaho]

Is Olli playing tomorrow?

I guess, he will

[JeffS]

We all know soon enough if Klinsi's decision was the right one. I, for one, rest easier to know Lehmann's in the goal.

I think he will come through for Germany.

I think he will too. In fact, along with Ballack, Lehmann will be one of Germany's major strengths going into the tournament.

The only risk is whether or not Lehmann has one of his blow-ups, as he's done on occasion in the past. But based on the way he's been performing and behaving for Arsenal this year, he seems to have matured enough to keep himself in check. Plus he seems very very very very motivated to do well and not screw himself with his temper.

We'll see.

[Duncan Idaho]

He's been in better form than Kahn for nearly three seasons.

For the last three season? Sorry mate, if it is so like you are saying then why did Wenger query Lehmann as Arsenal's first keeper last season? :rolleyes:

[The Old Lady Hertha]

Yes, it's a bold statement. In most times, I would have picked someone like Buffon, Cech, Keller, or a number of others. But Lehmann would certainly be top 5 or 10 regardless, and based on current form, I can think of no one else that is in better form right now.

KELLER!! pffft....please. Thats a US forum statement if I ever heard one LOL.

[JeffS]

KELLER!! pffft....please. Thats a US forum statement if I ever heard one LOL.

Keller is excellent. Maybe not among the best, maybe he is among the best, but he's very very good.

Beckenbauer called him, along with Kahn, the best 'keeper in the Bundesliga.

[Dead Fingers]

KELLER!! pffft....please. Thats a US forum statement if I ever heard one LOL.


Keller is world class. End of story...and I am not a US forum junkie

[Gregoriak]

I don't see how the timing is bad. It seems to me that Klinsmann was very fair about this. He anounced that the position was up for grabs and that the guy in the best form would get it. And he gave both players every chance to prove their merit. I'd say right now is about as good a time as any. Any sooner might have been too soon to get a full evaluation, and later might have resulted in chaos.

I don't see anything fair in his timing. Quite the opposite.

Klinsmann stated that he wanted to decide in May. Now Lehmann enjoyed a week of very positive publicity due to Arsenal's run in the CL and his great form and Kahn lets in a blunderful goal against Cologne. This week was desastrous for Kahn, even before Friday. If Klinsmann had been fair, he would have waited until May like he originally planned and then decided. That he chose to decide exactly in this week of Kahn-blunder and Lehmann-magic makes him look very biased in favor of Lehmann. It is quite the opposite to being fair to Kahn. One blunder of his and promptly Klinsmann says "you're out". As if he had waited for Kahn to show a weakness.

I was always pro-Klinsmann but his actions in recent months make me lose my faith in him as a decent guy. I have no problem with Lehmann being the #1 keeper for the World Cup, I saw it coming, I have a problem with Klinsmann's way of handling this affair. It is also pretty poor of Klinsmann that he argues he decided it this week because of Bayern pressuring him to do so. Laughable. During all his time as Germany manager Klinsmann never even remotely gave in to any criticism from Bundesliga people or the media and now suddenly he follows suit when Bayern complain? Hardly. If Klinsmann had been really ballsy, he would not have used that sorry excuse but said how it is, namely that he always wanted Lehmann as his #1 keeper but wasn't man enough to decide it right at the start of his Germany job back in August 2004.

How is that ballsy of Klinsmann to axe Kahn during this week, when all the media began to focus on Lehmann's CL record and Kahn's blunder? Klinsmann took the easy way, it was the ideal scenario for him this week. Kahn, Bayern, the media and Lehmann served him this decision on a silver plate - if he had been ballsy, he would have sticked to his original plan of announcing his #1 keeper in May.

Also, what if Lehmann loses his form or starts to let in howlers in the coming weeks? The fuss would start all over again! I think it was not very wise of Klinsmann announcing his preference of Lehmann this early. He waited for so long (1.5 years) he could have easily waited another month, till the end of the season. That would have been less risky, but he couldn't resist the great temptation that this week brought...

Another point, not related to your post, I'd like to make is that through all this I was quite disappointed in Kahn's, and Bayern management's, reaction to Klinsmanns decision to put the position up for grabs. Kahn whined that it wasn't fair, that he was already the established number 1 for Germany, and it was his to keep. Bayern's Management whined that it wasn't fair and that it would be "too much pressure on Kahn". Bullsh!t. Everyone should have to earn their postion on the NT. No one should have a pre-ordained postion, regardless of past performances.


I think you are overdoing it a bit here. You make it sound as if Kahn was bitching, whining and moaning excessively all of the time. You're right with regard to Bayern's management, they overdid it, but Kahn himself really behave fairly well all this time.

[scorpio81]

I think he will too. In fact, along with Ballack, Lehmann will be one of Germany's major strengths going into the tournament.

The only risk is whether or not Lehmann has one of his blow-ups, as he's done on occasion in the past. But based on the way he's been performing and behaving for Arsenal this year, he seems to have matured enough to keep himself in check. Plus he seems very very very very motivated to do well and not screw himself with his temper.

We'll see.


what gives me reason for optimism is that jens has been working with a youthful, inexperienced defence at arsenal for the entire season... much like germanys will be at the world cup... yes, he is a bit crazy but he comes off his line sooner and his decision making has been very good all year...

with the way our defence pushes up, this attribute could be key in stopping counter attacks...

yes, kahn can make the reaction saves like the one he did vs that US forward (header), but lehmann has a better overall command of the box (im particularly disappointed by kahn not shouting at ismael and lucio for pushing up too much and too carelessly - evidenced in the match at milan, for eg)...
lol, call me crazy as well, but i kinda like the psycho goalies who shout at their defense all the time... it speaks of confidence and command in the area and when i play defence, i am like that too... keeps everybody on their toes... jens whispering sweet nothings from behind them will particularly benefit huth, metz, merte and co. ;)

[SirManchester]

For the last three season? Sorry mate, if it is so like you are saying then why did Wenger query Lehmann as Arsenal's first keeper last season? :rolleyes:

you're right, but if you've paid attention to what actually occured, it wasn't as if Lehman was shite all around, he made a couple of errors, that's all, and he was punished for it. And that's not the case at Bayern, last season Kahn wasn't perfect, he too had several blunders but he wasn't punished for it. Quite frankly, It's been a long time coming for Kahn to be put into place here by Klinsman.

[scorpio81]

I don't see anything fair in his timing. Quite the opposite.

Klinsmann stated that he wanted to decide in May. Now Lehmann enjoyed a week of very positive publicity due to Arsenal's run in the CL and his great form and Kahn lets in a blunderful goal against Cologne. This week was desastrous for Kahn, even before Friday. If Klinsmann had been fair, he would have waited until May like he originally planned and then decided. That he chose to decide exactly in this week of Kahn-blunder and Lehmann-magic makes him look very biased in favor of Lehmann. It is quite the opposite to being fair to Kahn. One blunder of his and promptly Klinsmann says "you're out". As if he had for Kahn to show a weakness.

I was always pro-Klinsmann but his actions in recent months make me lose my faith in him as a decent guy. I have no problem with Lehmann being the #1 keeper for the World Cup, I saw it coming, I have a problem with Klinsmann's way of handling this affair. It is also pretty poor of Klinsmann that he argues he decided it this week because of Bayern pressuring him to do so. Laughable. During all his time as Germany manager Klinsmann never even remotely gave in to any criticism from Bundesliga people or the media and now suddenly he follows suit when Bayern complain? Hardly. If Klinsmann had been really ballsy, he would not have used that poor excuse but said how it is, namely that he always wanted Lehmann as his #1 keeper but wasn't man enough to decide it right at the start of his Germany job back in August 2004.

How is that ballsy of Klinsmann to axe Kahn during this week, when all the media began to focus on Lehmann's CL record and Kahn's blunder? Klinsmann took the easy way, it was the ideal scenario for him this week. Kahn, Bayern, the media and Lehmann served him this decision on a silver plate - if he had been ballsy, he would have sticked to his original plan of announcing his #1 keeper in May.

Also, what if Lehmann loses his form or blunders in the coming weeks? The fuss would start all over again! I think it was not very wise of Klinsmann announcing his preference of Lehmann this early. He waited for so long (1.5 years) he could have easily waited another month, till the end of the season. That would have been less risky, but he couldn't resist the great temptation that this week brought...



I think you are overdoing it a bit here. You make it sound as if Kahn was bitching, whining and moaning excessively all of the time. You're right with regard to Bayern's management, they overdid it, but Kahn himself really behave fairly well all this time.


very good post, gregoriak... even though it is diametrically opposite to mine...
very interesting how people can interpret the same things in a different way, but in an extremely sensible manner...

have to admit, i completely see your point of view, and its hard to argue with it...

[Gregoriak]

what gives me reason for optimism is that jens has been working with a youthful, inexperienced defence at arsenal for the entire season... much like germanys will be at the world cup... yes, he is a bit crazy but he comes off his line sooner and his decision making has been very good all year...

with the way our defence pushes up, this attribute could be key in stopping counter attacks...


Hopefully it will work out well, but if we look at the Italy game...

[scorpio81]

Hopefully it will work out well, but if we look at the Italy game...


true, but having now earned the mantle of #1, maybe this will give jens more confidence and belief in his own ability and the hitherto missing conviction in his decision-making (whilst playing for germany)

i am just hoping for the best... heres my post from anothe forum -


unless matthaus is right in saying that klinsi was waiting for just such an occassion to make his decision (when kahn blunders twice over the weekend, arsenal enters the CL SF and bayern travel to bremen with the title race seemingly wide open), lehmann has absolutely earned his sport through concentration, dedication and hard work...

yes, he was outspoken at times, but so was kahn... it may be true that since kahn had jens breathing down his neck for two years, he faced much more pressure to perform but the truth is that the two keepers are on a very even keel and they both deserved to be given a fair chance...

lehmann has come through, its now his position to lose... i didnt think this would happen, but i welcome the fact that a decision has finally been made and that this whole saga is near its end...

my personal feeling is that lehmann will react superbly to this decision and will play much more sensibly and with less desperation/insanity about him while kahn (who is a born fighter) will be super-motivated for the rest of the season...

remember that klinsi has not said that jens WILL be starting vs costa rica... he is just AHEAD in the pecking order right now...

kahn can just as easily win it back (especially if what matthaus suggested about may comes true)

[Duncan Idaho]

I don't see anything fair in his timing. Quite the opposite.

Klinsmann stated that he wanted to decide in May. Now Lehmann enjoyed a week of very positive publicity due to Arsenal's run in the CL and his great form and Kahn lets in a blunderful goal against Cologne. This week was desastrous for Kahn, even before Friday. If Klinsmann had been fair, he would have waited until May like he originally planned and then decided. That he chose to decide exactly in this week of Kahn-blunder and Lehmann-magic makes him look very biased in favor of Lehmann. It is quite the opposite to being fair to Kahn. One blunder of his and promptly Klinsmann says "you're out". As if he had waited for Kahn to show a weakness.

I was always pro-Klinsmann but his actions in recent months make me lose my faith in him as a decent guy. I have no problem with Lehmann being the #1 keeper for the World Cup, I saw it coming, I have a problem with Klinsmann's way of handling this affair. It is also pretty poor of Klinsmann that he argues he decided it this week because of Bayern pressuring him to do so. Laughable. During all his time as Germany manager Klinsmann never even remotely gave in to any criticism from Bundesliga people or the media and now suddenly he follows suit when Bayern complain? Hardly. If Klinsmann had been really ballsy, he would not have used that sorry excuse but said how it is, namely that he always wanted Lehmann as his #1 keeper but wasn't man enough to decide it right at the start of his Germany job back in August 2004.

How is that ballsy of Klinsmann to axe Kahn during this week, when all the media began to focus on Lehmann's CL record and Kahn's blunder? Klinsmann took the easy way, it was the ideal scenario for him this week. Kahn, Bayern, the media and Lehmann served him this decision on a silver plate - if he had been ballsy, he would have sticked to his original plan of announcing his #1 keeper in May.

Also, what if Lehmann loses his form or starts to let in howlers in the coming weeks? The fuss would start all over again! I think it was not very wise of Klinsmann announcing his preference of Lehmann this early. He waited for so long (1.5 years) he could have easily waited another month, till the end of the season. That would have been less risky, but he couldn't resist the great temptation that this week brought...


Congratulations for a great post, you are hitting the right spot

[kickinthehead]

remember that klinsi has not said that jens WILL be starting vs costa rica... he is just AHEAD in the pecking order right now...

kahn can just as easily win it back (especially if what matthaus suggested about may comes true)

Don't kid yourself. This is it for Kahn. Lehmann will be playing the WC unless injury prevents him from doing so.

[bayern_man]

I think this is the right choice,Lehmann has been playing better than Kahn lately,however i also think this will benefit Bayern as Kahn will now be determined to show hes still as good as he was so hopefully he will play brilliantly for the rest of the season

[blazsovszkyc]

Keller is world class. End of story...and I am not a US forum junkie
I double that, my favorite US player

[arthur d]

I agree with Gregoriak that the timing was anything but ballsy, it was a bit opportunistic. Anyway, we will never know how long ago Klinsmann decided this. Looks like he might have decided ages ago, but I prefer to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that it's quite a recent decision based on Jens' great performances. BTW I can't find the link now, but I read an article in the Guardian suggesting to make Lehmann player of the year in the Premiership, based on his importance for Arsenal this season.

So I also agree with Jeff and some others that it's a good decision. I would have waited a bit longer as a bad Lehmann blunder could shake things up a lot now, but in general Jens has been playing better than Olli for quite some time now and that should be taken into account.

[ForeverRed]

Gregoriak is right, and so were all other posters who said that Klinsman's decision was nothing but an opportunistic pounce, unfair from a neutral perspective and contradictory to his original plans of annoucing the number one keeper. While he is gaining support from the anti-Kahn camp , he is also losing credibility from staunch DFB supporters who believe this move came at the wrong time.

He has been making a lot of risky moves as a new and young coach, between not attending squad meetings to ousting Woerns and now favoring Lehmann in light of Kahn's recent lack in form.

Klinsman was one of my favorite players growing up but as a coach there are a lot of decisions that are making me dislike him.

Once again, I have to warn myself and everyone else about the potential backlash Klinsman will have to face from the public IF Germany fails to live up to expectations. I think this Lehmann decision would be one of the focus points in that criticism.

[arthur d]

Gregoriak is right, and so were all other posters who said that Klinsman's decision was nothing but an opportunistic pounce, unfair from a neutral perspective and contradictory to his original plans of annoucing the number one keeper.

I am sorry but that's at the very best a bit imprecise. Do you mean that the timing of the announcement was opportunistic? His decision certainly wasn't.

And to be fair, he did get pressure from Bayern to announce it asap. You can argue that he didn't really care about it before, but the Bayern management were really precipitating this now. They certainly didn't act in Kahn's favour.