Political Argument Arena!!!

[tigerdave]

Where did I say I support the IRA or Celtic for that matter? You and Toon3 keep bring up Celtic,IRA, the Troubles, terrorists, all other manner of bullshit to try justify the Huns behavior not me. Seriously you guys got nothing.:D

Why would I condemn anyone for being the opposite of right wing fascist and racist scum?? I keep hearing the same strawman arguments over and over. I don't like clubs with large portions of right wing ultras, I'm anti racist, anti-fascist and I only believe in violence in self defense.Tell me again why this is bad?

Well, were you to omit the adjective "right-wing" it would probably kill half the argument against you. Then again, it seems the three of you never meet an argument you don't take a side in. :)

[Dirt McGirt]

Well, were you to omit the adjective "right-wing" it would probably kill half the argument against you. Then again, it seems the three of you never meet an argument you don't take a side in. :) I've stayed out of this thread because I know the majority of the poster here are Republicans and well let's just say I love my country hate my government. Thanks Dave for dumping me in here.:p

We need some Spurs trolls to beat up on or well let's just take it to XBOX Live HALO.

[ToonUSA]

Where did I say I support the IRA or Celtic for that matter? You and Toon3 keep bring up Celtic,IRA, the Troubles, terrorists, all other manner of bullshit to try justify the Huns behavior not me. Seriously you guys got nothing.:D

Why would I condemn anyone for being the opposite of right wing fascist and racist scum?? I keep hearing the same strawman arguments over and over. I don't like clubs with large portions of right wing ultras, I'm anti racist, anti-fascist and I only believe in violence in self defense.Tell me again why this is bad?

Yes, because referring to the Rangers fans as Huns doesn't give you away as a Celtic homer. :rolleyes: And who's trying to justify anything? Graeme and I are just saying you need to call it both ways if you're going to call it.

So you sympathize with the terrorists and communists? Because that's directly on the other side of the scale from "right wing fascist and racist scum." (I still find it amusing you refuse to stop calling them fascist or racist.)

[BayernWake]

Terrorists have stupid faces.

And their butts smell.

[Dirt McGirt]

Yes, because referring to the Rangers fans as Huns doesn't give you away as a Celtic homer. :rolleyes: And who's trying to justify anything? Graeme and I are just saying you need to call it both ways if you're going to call it.

So you sympathize with the terrorists and communists? Because that's directly on the other side of the scale from "right wing fascist and racist scum." (I still find it amusing you refuse to stop calling them fascist or racist.)A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.[1] To "set up a straw man" or "set up a straw man argument" is to describe a position that superficially resembles an opponent's actual view but is easier to refute, then attribute that position to the opponent (for example, deliberately overstating the opponent's position).[1] A straw man argument can be a successful rhetorical technique (that is, it may succeed in persuading people) but it carries little or no real evidential weight, because the opponent's actual argument has not been refuted.[2]

U and Graeme cant touch this
http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/McHammer.gif

I rock this thread like a hurricane.

[ToonUSA]

You're the one dodging questions Senator Obama.

[Dirt McGirt]

You're the one dodging questions Senator Obama.Here's the crux of the whole argument for you.



1. I said Rangers played anti-football in th UEFA Cup and I thought it was garbage.
Result-inconclusive as this is a matter of opinion

2. I called Rangers (supporters) right wing tossers which offended Toon3.
Results- Correct Rangers are indeed followed by a larger then normal segment of fascist, racist, and anti-semitic yobs. This is fact and it's been documented at length proof of which is easily accessible using the internet.

3. Frequent and often pathetic attempts to link Dirt to all manner of insidious and evil acts and organizations in attempt to win an argument that is unwinnable-
Results-Hilariously Irrelevant Strawman arguments never work and only highlight ones own weak position. (A favored tactic of American Conservatives)

Summary Rangers may or may not play ************ boring football in Europe but they are indeed a favored club of UK ultra right wingers. Thus I hope Zenit squash them 8-0.

[ToonUSA]

Here's the crux of the whole argument for you.

1. I said Rangers played anti-football in th UEFA Cup and I thought it was garbage.
Result-inconclusive as this is a matter of opinion
That's not the part of the argument I'm taking umbrage with.

2. I called Rangers (supporters) right wing tossers which offended Toon3.
Results- Correct Rangers are indeed followed by a larger then normal segment of fascist, racist, and anti-semitic yobs. This is fact and it's been documented at length proof of which is easily accessible using the internet.
Larger than normal? What's larger than normal? You see, you're just throwing out vague claims and hoping they stick. (Typical Left Wing tactic) Anti-Semitic? Where'd this come from?

3. Frequent and often pathetic attempts to link Dirt to all manner of insidious and evil acts and organizations in attempt to win an argument that is unwinnable-
Results-Hilariously Irrelevant Strawman arguments never work and only highlight ones own weak position. (A favored tactic of American Conservatives)
It's not a strawman it's the truth. You said you dislike Rangers because of what you feel they stand for in Norn Iron and Scotland. You even said yourself that you sympathize with the other side, which happens to be the IRA and Celtic. And you still refuse to condemn their fans who do the same types of thing as Rangers just because you agree with their stance. That's fine but don't get upset when we call bull shit.

Summary Rangers may or may not play ************ boring football in Europe but they are indeed a favored club of UK ultra right wingers. Thus I hope Zenit squash them 8-0.
As are Chelsea, Stoke City, Linfield and loads of other clubs. Nothing like basing your soccer views on politics. :rolleyes:

[Dirt McGirt]

As are Chelsea, Stoke City, Linfield and loads of other clubs. Nothing like basing your soccer views on politics. :rolleyes:Like I said before I was fiercely anti fascist and anti racist long before I became a soccer fan. My core political beliefs have helped shaped my world view and that would naturally extend to other areas of my life.

[Dirt McGirt]

You even said yourself that you sympathize with the other side, which happens to be the IRA and Celtic. I'm not going to answer the rest of your post cause I've already done so but this quote highlights the bigotry that I'm talking about. I never said I sympathize with the IRA or Celtic, I sympathize with some Catholics. Are all NI Catholics terrorists in you and Toon3's eyes??

[ToonUSA]

Like I said before I was fiercely anti fascist and anti racist long before I became a soccer fan. My core political beliefs have helped shaped my world view and that would naturally extend to other areas of my life.

What say you of terrorist groups? Like, say the IRA?

And what about your claims of Rangers being Anti-Semitic? Got anything to back that up?

[BayernWake]

I don't think Jaypro ever said he sympathizes with those who oppose Rangers (i.e. Celtic). I believe he said he sympathizes with those who oppose the right-wing extremists who support Rangers.

[ToonUSA]

I'm not going to answer the rest of your post cause I've already done so but this quote highlights the bigotry that I'm talking about. I never said I sympathize with the IRA or Celtic, I sympathize with some Catholics. Are all NI Catholics terrorists in you and Toon3's eyes??

So only some of the NI Catholics can be terrorists, but you'll condemn the whole Rangers fan base as "right wing fascist and racist scum."

Sounds fair in some circles. :rolleyes:

[ToonUSA]

I don't think Jaypro ever said he sympathizes with those who oppose Rangers (i.e. Celtic). I believe he said he sympathizes with those who oppose the right-wing extremists who support Rangers.

He said the "oppressed Catholics living in NI and Scotland." I'm sure there are people who oppose Rangers outside of that area, and he even said his main reason for disliking Rangers is for that issue.

[BayernWake]

And what about your claims of Rangers being Anti-Semitic? Got anything to back that up?

Again, I don't believe he ever said Rangers were anti-Semites, just their right-wing extremist supporters.

[ToonUSA]

Again, I don't believe he ever said Rangers were anti-Semites, just their right-wing extremist supporters.


2. I called Rangers (supporters) right wing tossers which offended Toon3.
Results- Correct Rangers are indeed followed by a larger then normal segment of fascist, racist, and anti-semitic yobs. This is fact and it's been documented at length proof of which is easily accessible using the internet.


Seems pretty clear to me.

[Dirt McGirt]

So only some of the NI Catholics can be terrorists, but you'll condemn the whole Rangers fan base as "right wing fascist and racist scum."
If you don't like Catholics just say so.

Here's your innocents singing immigrants go home. ******** Rangers!

bYNDWKdKBLU

Y don't u go home,
Y don't u go hooooommmmeeee.
The Famine's over,
Y don't u go home.

[Dirt McGirt]

I don't condone any sort of bigotry and hate from either side. I don't like Rangers FC for a variety of reasons but mainly because I detest everything that club has come to represent in Scotland and Northern Ireland. Also as a African-American I strongly identify with many of Northern Irish Catholics struggles against bigotry, oppression and injustice(something I've come to learn is reciprocated many Catholics as well).

I'm also fiercely anti-fascist/nazi going back to my early teenage years in the DC punk scene and a large segment of Rangers supporters happen to be ultra right wing fascist and racist scum ,which is well documented and is also 180 degrees from my views. I don't believe all Rangers FC fans are bad and it seems the club(s) is making steps to distance itself from the sectarian nonsense which is a positive.

With all that being said if Celtic had played a similar style of football I would have also called it anti-football which started the whole discussion with Toon3 to begin with.
Reread for better understanding ToonUSA.

[tigerdave]

I don't think Jaypro ever said he sympathizes with those who oppose Rangers (i.e. Celtic). I believe he said he sympathizes with those who oppose the right-wing extremists who support Rangers.

Who is this Jaypro you speak of? :confused:

</levity>

[BayernWake]

Seems pretty clear to me.

If you read what you just quoted, you'll find that he said Rangers are followed by anti-semitics yobs, not Rangers are anti-semitic yobs.