View Full Version : Court ruling re:personalized WC tix
danno2586
28 Mar 2006, 06:22 PM
28.3.06
FRANKFURT, Germany (AP) - A Frankfurt court ruled Tuesday that security interests made personalized World Cup tickets necessary.
A ticket holder filed a complaint requesting that his identity card number be removed from his World Cup ticket. But the Frankfurt district court ruled that such information was necessary to ensure security at the June 9-July 9 tournament.
The ruling said that identity card numbers were the ultimate proof of identity, especially because names and dates of birth could be misprinted on the tickets.
All World Cup tickets will bear such personalized information in an attempt to clamp down on scalping and hooligans.
Organizers have urged fans to give themselves plenty of time to arrive for a match because controls at the gates could take a long time.
Privacy protection groups have protested against demands to include such personal information on the request for tickets.
FIFA has described the German ticketing system as complicated and will do its own distribution for the 2010 World Cup in South Africa.
JugglinNCWest7
28 Mar 2006, 06:29 PM
This is nothing new is it? Same info with a different title.
danno2586
28 Mar 2006, 06:33 PM
Thought the actual ruling was new as it was reported as news today on foxsports.com.
Danno
JugglinNCWest7
28 Mar 2006, 06:35 PM
I mean yeah the ruling/case is new... but it's all the same information we've been told since the beginning. People are still gonna scalp... that's the nature of the beast.
globalexplorer
28 Mar 2006, 06:49 PM
I read a while ago that the judge was waiting to see the Ticket Portal before he would rule. No surprise here and it really doesn't change a thing. There is no way they will check everyone but maybe spot checks should be expected.
MarNic
29 Mar 2006, 08:34 AM
I was under the impression that the tickets would have names but no other personal info. The FIFA website says as much.
Has this changed?
No one in there right mind takes their passport to a football match!
Fevernova99
29 Mar 2006, 08:42 AM
No there is an embedded chip inside the ticket that holds the personal info and it will disable itself a few weeks after the match automatically to erase all personal info...
Doesn't this concern you folks who are trading/swapping tickets with other fans at all - "Organizers have urged fans to give themselves plenty of time to arrive for a match because controls at the gates could take a long time."
AGF Aarhus
29 Mar 2006, 08:58 AM
I was under the impression that the tickets would have names but no other personal info. The FIFA website says as much.
Has this changed?
No one in there right mind takes their passport to a football match!
We had this discussion a few weeks ago in the Phase IV Tickets thread. You were wrong then and you are wrong now.
As I said at the time, anyone who wants to get into the game will take their passport with them. Furthermore, it is German law that you carry your passport at all times (though this is rarely enforced), which makes the 'no one would carry their passport' argument moot.
MarNic
29 Mar 2006, 09:07 AM
We had this discussion a few weeks ago in the Phase IV Tickets thread. You were wrong then and you are wrong now.
As I said at the time, anyone who wants to get into the game will take their passport with them. Furthermore, it is German law that you carry your passport at all times (though this is rarely enforced), which makes the 'no one would carry their passport' argument moot.
So Germans have to have their passport on them at all times, interesting law:) I know you know everything but are you sure about that statement?
FIFA had said that no personal info would be kept on the ticket other than name. At that point I had no concern. This NEW info is a bit more concerning.
What exactly was I wrong about?
I will not be taking my passport to any matches!
AGF Aarhus
29 Mar 2006, 09:16 AM
So Germans have to have their passport on them at all times, interesting law:) I know you know everything but are you sure about that statement?
FIFA had said that no personal info would be kept on the ticket other than name. At that point I had no concern. This NEW info is a bit more concerning.
What exactly was I wrong about?
I will not be taking my passport to any matches!
German law states that you must have ID at all times. For Germans and other citizens of EU countries this means a national ID card. For others, this means a passport. I know this because I have lived in Germany for four years, and as a foreigner here you get to know the rule under which you live pretty well. I am merely repeating what I have been told at the immigration office.
FIFA has said that no personal information with be stored ON THE CHIP in the tickets.
As this court case shows, the plan has always been to print national ID/passport numbers on the tickets, along with names, and to check them randomly at the games. This is not new information. If you dispute this, then I direct you to the court case in question.
What exactly were you wrong about? Well, I'd suggest rereading the Phase IV Tickets thread, but for starters your claim that if you show up at the game without a passport that you can waltz through any checks by saying 'Gee, I left my passport at the hotel and it is up to you to prove I am not who I say I am, because no sane person would take their passport to a game'.
MarNic
29 Mar 2006, 09:26 AM
German law states that you must have ID at all times. For Germans and other citizens of EU countries this means a national ID card. For others, this means a passport. I know this because I have lived in Germany for four years, and as a foreigner here you get to know the rule under which you live pretty well. I am merely repeating what I have been told at the immigration office.
FIFA has said that no personal information with be stored ON THE CHIP in the tickets.
As this court case shows, the plan has always been to print national ID/passport numbers on the tickets, along with names, and to check them randomly at the games. This is not new information. If you dispute this, then I direct you to the court case in question.
What exactly were you wrong about? Well, I'd suggest rereading the Phase IV Tickets thread, but for starters your claim that if you show up at the game without a passport that you can waltz through any checks by saying 'Gee, I left my passport at the hotel and it is up to you to prove I am not who I say I am, because no sane person would take their passport to a game'.
OK so Germans do not have to carry their passport at all times. Glad we go that one sorted.
As for the waltz and the gee I think you may have put words into my mouth.
If you can show me on the fifa website where it says ID numbers will be printed on tickets i'll publicily say i'm wrong, you will win, this will be over and i'll even buy you a beer.
GO On, END IT!
Fevernova99
29 Mar 2006, 09:32 AM
the passport # is in the RFID chip within the ticket... they are saying if the name mismatch their database can still match the ticket to an individual.
MarNic
29 Mar 2006, 09:36 AM
the passport # is in the RFID chip within the ticket... they are saying if the name mismatch their database can still match the ticket to an individual.
That was my understanding.
SkyBlueCity
29 Mar 2006, 09:38 AM
Great discussion!
AGF Aarhus
29 Mar 2006, 09:38 AM
Read the damn thread!!!
28.3.06
FRANKFURT, Germany (AP) - A Frankfurt court ruled Tuesday that security interests made personalized World Cup tickets necessary.
A ticket holder filed a complaint requesting that his identity card number be removed from his World Cup ticket. But the Frankfurt district court ruled that such information was necessary to ensure security at the June 9-July 9 tournament.
The ruling said that identity card numbers were the ultimate proof of identity, especially because names and dates of birth could be misprinted on the tickets.
All World Cup tickets will bear such personalized information in an attempt to clamp down on scalping and hooligans.
Organizers have urged fans to give themselves plenty of time to arrive for a match because controls at the gates could take a long time.
Privacy protection groups have protested against demands to include such personal information on the request for tickets.
FIFA has described the German ticketing system as complicated and will do its own distribution for the 2010 World Cup in South Africa.
As for me putting words in your mouth, this is what you wrote:
After all it is up to them to prove that you are not who you say you are. No-one in their right mind will take any real proof of ID such as a passport to a soccer game.
Even if they did check you can just say you don't have ID. It's up to them to prove that you are not who you say you are. As long as you behave there will not be a problem.
tino11
29 Mar 2006, 09:41 AM
So Germans have to have their passport on them at all times, interesting law:) I know you know everything but are you sure about that statement?
FIFA had said that no personal info would be kept on the ticket other than name. At that point I had no concern. This NEW info is a bit more concerning.
What exactly was I wrong about?
I will not be taking my passport to any matches!
I have lived in Germany for nearly 2 years, and I refuse to carry my passport, however if you do not have EU legal photo id, you must carry it. Simple. If you have neither you will not get into the games. Also if you are arrested you will be held in custody until such a time you can produce it.
MarNic
29 Mar 2006, 09:42 AM
Read the damn thread!!!
As for me putting words in your mouth, this is what you wrote:
OK good because i don't remember saying waltz and i certainly didn't say 'gee'.
So, just go ahead and win the argument by proving that the ID # will be printed on the ticket and you are the winner.
You stated that it has been fifa's intention from the start to do this so show the world where this is on the FIFA site.
Go ahead and end it please!
MarNic
29 Mar 2006, 09:44 AM
I have lived in Germany for nearly 2 years, and I refuse to carry my passport, however if you do not have EU legal photo id, you must carry it. Simple. If you have neither you will not get into the games. Also if you are arrested you will be held in custody until such a time you can produce it.
So everyone who does not have EU ID must carry their passport at the World cup at all times.
Perhaps FIFA should print that on the ticket to warn all fans arriving for 'a time to make friends'.
I'll try not to get arrested.
tino11
29 Mar 2006, 09:47 AM
Oh no, not more hysterics please!
It's not hysterics. Why do you think the application form for tickets was 10 pages long? It asked for your passport number did it not, and it also explained why on the small print.
globalexplorer
29 Mar 2006, 09:47 AM
I am German and have lived my first 21 years in Germany. The law cited (carry ID at all times) is being ignored by many Germans in my opinion and I have been stopped by police several times (don't ask :)) without my ID and it is really not a big deal. Knowing my countrymen (and women) though I wouldn't be surprised if most of them will bring their ID to the games just to be sure.
I have swapped tickets with people on this board and I am comfortable with the risk that this entails. 4 years ago in Japan/Korea the tickets were personalized as well (but no ID numbers though) and nobody cared. At the end of the day, someone contemplating using tickets with different names needs to know their risk profile.
This is a quote from the Q&A on the Fifa site:
How will ID cards and passports be checked at the gates?
Checks will be made depending on circumstances and at random. Customers should know, however, that without proof of identity due to lack of documentation, delays and refused entry to the stadium may be the consequence.
FYI - I remember this language being different six months ago. Now they seem to give themselves much more leeway.
I don't expect most foreigners carrying their passports to every game and if there were to check everyone I have no doubt that thousands of people might not be able to get into the games. That would be huge PR catastrophe for FIFA and the host and I don't see it happening.
If I am wrong, I'll eat my words (and the money spent on tickets that I can't use).
Let's all enjoy the countdown!
Off my soapbox now.....