Eta 'calls permanent ceasefire'

[TheOrator]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4832672.stm

The Basque separatist group Eta has declared a permanent ceasefire, according to reports on Basque radio.

[The Old Lady Hertha]

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/22/international/europe/22cnd-eta.html?hp&ex=1143090000&en=a0a41d714e5bb6e1&ei=5094&partner=homepage

Fantastic news IMO. However, I fear some of the most radical of the ETA maybe angered by this news and might do attacks to show they are still around and to hijack attempts at real peace.

[dmar]

Prudence. It's the tenth time they declare a ceasefire, only that this time they have added the adjective "permanent", but the communique is still very ambiguous. They haven't talked about disarming, only about a vague "peace process" with unassumable conditions.

And it's yet to be seen if, in addition to the truce, they are stopping the extortion of corporate owners and other forms of threatening the basque population that doesn't thinke the way they do.

The right, meanwhil, is very reluctant of anything resembling a "peace process", because their though anti-terror stance usually gives them a lot of votes.

We'll see.

[Achtung]

Wait, there was terrorism before 9/11??? :eek:

In all seriousness though, they declared a "cease-fire" back in 1998 as well. Doesn't mean a whole lot, other than that they're cooling off for a little while. They have a ways to go before convincing anyone that they want a meaningful peace process to take place.

[dmar]

Wait, there was terrorism before 9/11??? :eek:

Well, foreign media always labels this bastards as "separatist group" instead of "terrorist"... :rolleyes:

In all seriousness though, they declared a "cease-fire" back in 1998 as well. Doesn't mean a whole lot, other than that they're cooling off for a little while.

What makes this time a bit different is that they've been unable/unwilling (who knows?) to murder anyone for three years.

But yes, it's wise to be wary.

[JBigjake]

Unfortunately, even if the main group itself declares or maintains a ceasefire, there may always be factions or individuals who decide separately or on their own to disagree & continue. For example, splinter groups continue to pop up in Northern Ireland. The question is whether they are truly offshoots or are in fact cover groups.

[el_urchinio]

Well, foreign media always labels this bastards as "separatist group" instead of "terrorist"...

Because, of course, ETA targets civilians as opposed to the tools of Spanish oppression like soldiers, policemen, and politicians. :rolleyes:

I sometimes wonder if there is any way to resist occupation of your country without being labeled a terrorist.

[dmar]

Because, of course, ETA targets civilians as opposed to the tools of Spanish oppression like soldiers, policemen, and politicians. :rolleyes:

ETA targets (and kills) civilians, kids included. Check your facts.

I sometimes wonder if there is any way to resist occupation of your country without being labeled a terrorist.

What country? :rolleyes:

[el_urchinio]

ETA targets (and kills) civilians, kids included. Check your facts.

So Luis Carrero Blanco was a civilian? Or a kid? Guardia Civil, Policía Nacional, and the Ertzaintza members are civilians? Unless you can provide me with an example of ETA specifically trying to kill children, I call bullsh!t on this claim.

What country?

Euskal Herria. That country.

[dmar]

So Luis Carrero Blanco was a civilian? Or a kid? Guardia Civil, Policía Nacional, and the Ertzaintza members are civilians? Unless you can provide me with an example of ETA specifically trying to kill children, I call bullsh!t on this claim.

Hipercor Supermarket. The bastards put a bomb in a supermarket. 21 dead, 4 of them were kids.
Casa Cuartel de Zaragoza (Where the families of the Guardia Civil live), 11 dead, 5 of them kids.
Two gipsy brothers, 11 and 17, in Bilbao. Died after a bomb exploded in a container.
1985, the shock wave of a car bomb killed Alfredo Aguirre, 14, in Pamplona.

...

In total, ETA has killed 25 kids, including a 18-month old.

You can google them.
But you'll probably find an excuse for this, too.

And Ertzainas??? For god's sake, they're the Basque autonomous police, they're kept ineffectual by their own government.

Euskal Herria. That mythical country

Fixed.

So you fill your mouth with words like opression and such. But the terror that ETA has waged against their own people -the significant part that doesn't think like them- doesn't seem to bother you at all.

[CrewDust]

Unfortunately, even if the main group itself declares or maintains a ceasefire, there may always be factions or individuals who decide separately or on their own to disagree & continue. For example, splinter groups continue to pop up in Northern Ireland. The question is whether they are truly offshoots or are in fact cover groups.

Has "The Real" ETA made a statement yet?

[JBigjake]

Has "The Real" ETA made a statement yet?
or the "Continuity" ETA? Not yet. Let's just hope that we don't hear from them in Omagh fashion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omagh_bombing

Other areas with worries about splinter groups:
http://www.optonline.net/News/Article/Feeds?CID=type%3Dxml%26channel%3D32%26article%3D17750851
"A senior Israeli military intelligence official said he believed there were no more than 20 al-Qaida-linked activists in the Palestinian territories. Most of them are unhappy with a year-old decision by mainstream Palestinian factions, including Fatah and Hamas, to enforce a cease-fire with Israel"

[ONE]

Euskal Herria is only a mythical country until the Spanish government frees the Basque people.
Though ETA should have given up killing in the democratic era long before now (ive little sympathy for most victims pre 1975) their goals are shared by the majority of euskotar.
Basques are not Spanish. Not genetically, not linguistically, not culturally.
I applaud ETA for this move, and hopefully this will push Zapatero towards allowing further Basque autonomy.

the end. :)

[yokefello1]

This is a logical move. If they pursue legal routes to independence, how can Spain deny them their day in court?

Put the ball in Spain's hands and see what they do now. No longer can they blame all violence on ETA. Now all the Francoist bastards will be shown for what they are.

I'm anti-terrorism but pro-Basque. Read up on it, they've been oppressed for far too long.

[dmar]

Basques are not Spanish. Not genetically, not linguistically, not culturally.
I applaud ETA for this move, and hopefully this will push Zapatero towards allowing further Basque autonomy.

the end. :)

That's so racist... Basque is whoever has been born there, and many of them don't even use their language. I have family there. Most of them don't even speak euskera.
In any case the mythical Basque Country, according to them Basque nationalists, comprises several areas where they couldn't care less about basque nationalism, like Navarra, the French Basque Country, and even in Alava they aren't a majority. And I'm talking about nationalists, not downright independentists, which are even less in number.

I'm anti-terrorism but pro-Basque. Read up on it, they've been oppressed for far too long.

They are not opressed. They have a parliament, a police, they can use their language. And yet a 42% of them choose non-nationalist options.

I don't believe in colective "peoples", just in individual people. In the Basque country there are many ways of thinking and not everybody is in line with your stereotyped versions.

[yokefello1]

That's so racist... Basque is whoever has been born there, and many of them don't even use their language. I have family there. Most of them don't even speak euskera.
In any case the mythical Basque Country, according to them Basque nationalists, comprises several areas where they couldn't care less about basque nationalism, like Navarra, the French Basque Country, and even in Alava they aren't a majority. And I'm talking about nationalists, not downright independentists, which are even less in number.

I'd bet your family there aren't ethnic Basques. The influx of non-Basques means that of course fewer speak Euskera. Still, it is spoken, and there is a recent trend for young people to learn Euskera. Parts of France are apathetic to the Basque nationalist movement largely because of the French government's efforts to promote homogeneity among its population. As an anti-Basque of course you would consider The Basqueland a "myth" and Navarra a joke. Fortunatly, it's not your decision to make.


They are not opressed. They have a parliament, a police, they can use their language. And yet a 42% of them choose non-nationalist options.

I don't believe in colective "peoples", just in individual people. In the Basque country there are many ways of thinking and not everybody is in line with your stereotyped versions.

They are oppressed. Their "parliament" is a joke (unless you consider tax code empowering). The police force is under national jurisdiction ultimately. They have only been "allowed" their own language and flag relatively recently. That’s oppression bro.

If you don't believe in collective peoples, why is Spain more legitimate than the Basqueland? What would be so terrible about a Swiss-style confederation between the regions of Spain?

The resistance from the conservative party are just thinly veiled leftovers from the Francoist pigs that ran the country for decades. Open your eyes.

[dmar]

I'd bet your family there aren't ethnic Basques. The influx of non-Basques means that of course fewer speak Euskera.

Some non-ethinc vbasques speak euskera, and som ethnic ones don't. Still, the "ethnic" word holds no value for me.

Parts of France are apathetic to the Basque nationalist movement largely because of the French government's efforts to promote homogeneity among its population.

And? How is this opression? Are they less legitimate that the basque nationalist efforts to propote their own brand homogeneity among its population?

As an anti-Basque of course you would consider The Basqueland a "myth" and Navarra a joke.

I'm not anti-anything, just trying to illustrate you.
Navarra is just a province where people vote and don't care about Basque nationalism. Period. The old Kingdom of Navarra ceased to exist too long ago to deserve any consideration. And it never was the mythical basque land the nationalists biased historians talk about.

They are oppressed. Their "parliament" is a joke (unless you consider tax code empowering).

Quite wrong. The constitution grants them a wide range of competences and can pass a lot of laws and regulations. Spain's central state is relatively weak in its importance.
About tax codes. Their own very exclusice economic arrangement with the Spnish government effectively means they contribute less than any other region.

The police force is under national jurisdiction ultimately.

False. One of the main complains is how the basque government always kept them ineffectual against ETA.

They have only been "allowed" their own language and flag relatively recently.

More than 20 years is recently? You don't have a clue.

If you don't believe in collective peoples, why is Spain more legitimate than the Basqueland? What would be so terrible about a Swiss-style confederation between the regions of Spain?

I'm not a hardcore Sapanish nationalist, either. And I'm personally wouldn't mind about a federation.

The resistance from the conservative party are just thinly veiled leftovers from the Francoist pigs that ran the country for decades. Open your eyes.

Wrong again. While I'm have no love for the People's Party (funny name for a consevative party, eh?), there are many people who are leftists and democrats who don't like a primitive, racist and exclusionist (for the basque nationalist government, non-nationalist basques as second class citizens) ideology like basque nationalism.

[yokefello1]

I personally wouldn't mind about a federation.

I'm amazed you agree about the federation idea. Odd that we just solved an ancient dispute in five or so posts. :rolleyes:

Rather than go point by point refuting for the next five pages and getting nowhere, I'm going to leave this alone.

[dmar]

I'm amazed you agree about the federation idea. Odd that we just solved an ancient dispute in five or so posts. :rolleyes:

Rather than go point by point refuting for the next five pages and getting nowhere, I'm going to leave this alone.

I accept your surrender.