protestable versus credible

[Grizzlierbear]

I have a favour to ask. For this thread consider yourself a ruling member on the association committee examining the protest submitted to overturn the results of a match. The protest through channels with the fees required and in plenty of time. Imagine there is VIDEO evidence to support the claim. All matches were 3 official minimum some were 4

Now still recovering from the excitement of the defining characteristics of the PA in whether a restart location is or is not trivial or preventable lingers still . I did find the acrimonious nature of some threads to be less than helpful but it was good to see some emotion and spirited discussion . I feel it is important to point out this is not a pissing contest it is a SHARING of opinions and the evolution of our path in future decisions. I coach and as a coach I hold referee's accountable for every mistake they make that causes a game to be protested. While immutable it does not mean I blame them by pointing a finger and saying you are nincompoop It means I expect they learn not to make that same mistake again. Many protests are disregarded by the disciplinary committees as frivolous and unsubstantiated. I have compiled a short list of protested matches. If each referee responding would ONLY answer yes or no it would be appreciated. If there is an incident that you feel COULD be discussed reprint it onto its own thread. This brief list of weirdness is looking only for a yes or no answer Assume they all resulted in a goal and it was a 1 goal game. To complete a survey!
.
(1)A defender slides into the area of the goal inside the netting while COMPLETELY off the FOP he reaches back and uses his hand to stop a ball ¾ the way over the goal line . The referee awards a drop ball restart on the edge of the 6 yard goal area
Is this match replayed?

(2)The keeper is COMPLETELY outside the penalty area but the ball is visibly touching the PA boundary line. He places his hands on the portion of the ball OUTSIDE the PA and is called for Deliberate Handling and a DFK is awarded. The DFK restart has the ball touching the boundary line
Is this match replayed?

(3)The keeper in ball possession carries the ball to the top part of the penalty arc before releasing it into play . The referee calls for a DFK for DH and spots the ball on the edge of the penalty arc for a restart location 4 yards away from where the infraction occurred.
Is this match replayed?

(4)An attacker is forced wide but dribbles around the keeper at the edge of the penalty area he hits the shot towards the goal and it looks likely to score but a fan runs out from behind the goal and tries to kick the ball away but it deflects into the goal. The referee awards a goal.
Is this match replayed?

(5)Keeper spits at a player while in the PA but the Player is 5 yards outside the PA The restart is a PK?
Is this match replayed?

(6)Keeper spits at a player while in the PA but the Player is 5 yards outside the PA The restart is a DFK from 5 yards?
Is this match replayed?

(7)A substitution is requested on a throw in restart, the player leaves but the substitute never enters the FOP, he first takes the throw to a teammate who scores the goal .
Is this match replayed?

(8)A player with permission of the referee is off the FOP to attend an injury. A throw in opportunity has the ball put into touch near him and he takes the throw in releasing a teammate to cross the ball and a goal results.
Is this match replayed?

(9)We are 4 shots in to a sudden death shoot out still tied after 2 attempts each. Each kick had the referee hand the ball to the kicker and after the ball was placed on the spot the referee restarted EACH kick with a whistle signal. The 5th shooter steps up and BEFORE the referee whistles he cranks one, the keeper dives and saves the shot . The referee waves the kicker away and the 6th shooter comes up and scores.
Is this match replayed?

(10)We are 6 shots in to a sudden death shoot out tied at 3 attempts each. Each kick had the referee hand the ball to the kicker and after the ball was placed on the spot the referee restarted EACH kick with a whistle signal. The 7th shooter steps up and the referee whistles, he cranks one, the keeper dives and the goal is scored. The referee then calls for the 8 th shooter to have a turn who misses the same again for 9 and 10.
Is the match replayed?

(11)At the end of the first five attempts in a shootout blue team shooting first and red team shooting second we are tied so onto sudden death. The referee flips a coin to set the order of shooters. The coin flip changes nothing the order remains the same.
Is this match replayed?

(12)At the end of the first five attempts in a shootout blue team shooting first and red team shooting second we are tied so onto sudden death. The referee flips a coin to set the order of shooters. The coin flip changes the order red shoots their 6 th shot first and blue follows 2nd
Is this match replayed?

(13)For a six second, 2nd touch, or a pass back violation by a keeper inside his own penalty area. If ANY of these infringement locations occurs on or very near the penalty area boundary lines, BUT the restart takes place VISIBLY outside the penalty area boundary lines.
Is this match replayed?

(14)There is an INDFK awarded to the attackers for a infringement inside the goal area and the restart occurs only 3 yards from the goal line.
Is this match replayed?

(15)There is an iINDFK taken at 7 yards out from goal?
Is this match replayed?

(16) After a match the coach measures the goals and finds out there is a two inch height difference at one end 7 foot 10 inches. The match had the ball strike the underside of the crossbar and not enter the goal but bounced down onto the goalline.
Is this match replayed?

(17) On an injury to blue, red kicks ball out into touch as a sporting gesture. Blue #6 verbally promises to return the ball back to red and throws the ball in back to the red keeper the ball is intercepted though by a blue #5 player who scores thr goal
Is this match replayed?

(18) On a free kick the ball hits the keeper who was turned away and the ball rebounds directly back to the kicker who kicks it again into the goal?
Is this match replayed?

(19) In the first half the referee errs and only plays 40 minutes. To make it up he plays 50 minutes the second half.
Is this match replayed?

(20) A red and white trim shirted player on the red team has black shorts and black socks while his teammates are completely in red shorts and red socks as he forgot them in the other kit bag. The opposing team is in blue with white trim and black shorts and black socks. The first goal is scored by the mismatched player.
Is this match replayed?

[ref47]

1-y 11-n
2-y 12-n
3-n 13-y
4-y 14-y
5-y 15-n
6-y 16-n
7-y 17-n
8-n 18-not enough info
9-n 19-n
10-n 20-n

[Chas (Psyatika)]

1 yes
2 no
3 no
4 yes
5 yes
6 no
7 no
8 yes
9 no
10 no
11 no
12 no
13 yes
14 yes
15 no
16 no
17 no
18 no
19 yes
20 no

I based my answers simply upon whether or not the restart was correct. The penalty shoot out ones i based on the fact that the penalty shoot out is not part of the match. Otherwise i generally went with "no" unless proven "yes", so if it was ambiguous, or not enough info, i said no.

[Statesman]

Although you ask whether we would have the match replayed, it reads more like a quiz on proper restarts. Although an improper restart is grounds for protest, that does not automatically translate into a replay. Only if the improper restart clearly impacts the outcome is the match replayed (i.e. game winning goal is scored from a PK that should be an IFK).

With that in mind, none of your questions have enough information to make a decision.

[blind_clown]

Although you ask whether we would have the match replayed, it reads more like a quiz on proper restarts. Although an improper restart is grounds for protest, that does not automatically translate into a replay. Only if the improper restart clearly impacts the outcome is the match replayed (i.e. game winning goal is scored from a PK that should be an IFK).

With that in mind, none of your questions have enough information to make a decision.
signed

[USSF REF]

(1) Yes
(2) Yes
(3) No
(4) Yes
(5) Yes
(6) No
(7) Yes
(8) No
(9) No
(10)No
(11)No
(12) No
(13) Yes
(14) Yes
(15) No
(16) No
(17) No
(18) No
(19) Yes
(20) No

[USSF REF]

I defaulted all my answers regarding the KFTPM as 'No' because FIFA doesn't consider that a "part of the match" which they allow to be concluded with fewer than 7 kickers. Thus I can't see how you replay a drawn match in its entirety over a faulty tie breaker. The whole point of the tie breaker is to avoid a replay anyway, which would be the usual remedy to a drawn match which required a winnner. Maybe instead they would retake the kicks from the mark instead.

[refmike]

1 y
2 y
3 n
4 y
5 y
6 n
7 n
8 n
9 y
10 y
11 n
12 y
13 n
14 y
15 n
16 n
17 n
18 y
19 y
20 n

The questions about an error during a tie breaker are a puzzle because the results are supposed to be acted upon before there is time for a replay. Perhaps the better question should include some other form of correction.

[gosellit]

Although you ask whether we would have the match replayed, it reads more like a quiz on proper restarts. Although an improper restart is grounds for protest, that does not automatically translate into a replay. Only if the improper restart clearly impacts the outcome is the match replayed (i.e. game winning goal is scored from a PK that should be an IFK).

With that in mind, none of your questions have enough information to make a decision.

ditto

[Ref Flunkie]

(1)Y
(2)N
(3)N
(4)Y
(5)N
(6)N
(7)N
(8)N
(9)N
(10)N
(11)N
(12)N
(13)N
(14)N
(15)N
(16) Y
(17) N
(18) N
(19) N
(20) N


I guess I don't want to replay many matches, but most of my No's were because of lack of information, as Statesman said...I could not decide if they "really" mattered in the grand scheme of things. Were they wrong....sure....did the warrent a replay....THAT is the question.

This upcoming comment should remove any credibility I've ever had....so we are still set as any offense such as spitting and striking with the ball, the foul occurs where the contact occurs, not at originating player? I could have sworn this has been changed at least one time. Good to know. (Yes my brain has been on winter break, so sue me!) :)

[Wreave]

I assume your statement "resulted in a goal" could be more broadly interpreted as "the incorrect decision had a significant impact on the outcome of the match", e.g. in example 1, perhaps the DB did not result in a goal, whereas the PK more likely would have. My answer Y means the protest (either for the game or KFTPM) would likely be upheld.

1 - Y - should have been PK/DOGSO-H, not DB
2 - Y - ball is still in PA, may be handled by keeper, location of restart immaterial except to agree with location of ball
3 - N - maybe depends on level of play, but if law applied properly, location of restart probably not protestable
4 - Y - although the ref might say his opinion concerning the facts of play are that the fan did not touch the ball, and therefore there was no interference, and the call would stand. If the ref says the fan did touch the ball, must be a DB restart.
5 - Y - infraction occurs where opponent stands, should be DFK
6 - N - restart is correct
7 - Y - sub must enter field to become player, this is addressed either in Q&A or ATR, can't remember which
8 - Y - player must have permission to reenter field and join game before playing
9 - N - if the ref says he gave a signal, the save stands. Signal does not have to be whistle.
10 - N - I can't figure out what's wrong with this one.
11 - N - no impact
12 - Y - procedure not followed
13 - N - maybe incorrect per 8000-post thread, but not protestable
14 - Y - special cirumstances law 8 procedure not followed
15 - Y - special circumstances law 8 procedure not followed
16 - N - both teams played both sides?
17 - N - but ref should have found fault with TI
18 - N - can't figure out what is wrong with this one
19 - Y - this is specifically disallowed
20 - N - matching shorts not spec'd in laws or ATR (unless spec'd in league or competition rules)

[Chas (Psyatika)]

so we are still set as any offense such as spitting and striking with the ball, the foul occurs where the contact occurs, not at originating player? I could have sworn this has been changed at least one time. Good to know. (Yes my brain has been on winter break, so sue me!) :)Last i checked, yes. The offense occurs where the object (or wad of saliva) hits or would have hit the target. So spitting at someone who is in the PA is always a PK, and spitting at someone who is outside the PA is always a DFK (assuming you're a player on the field and the ball is in play).

[USSF REF]

Last i checked, yes. The offense occurs where the object (or wad of saliva) hits or would have hit the target. So spitting at someone who is in the PA is always a PK, and spitting at someone who is outside the PA is always a DFK (assuming you're a player on the field and the ball is in play).

In my best Phil Heartman impersonating Ed McMahon on "Carsino" impression: "You are correct, sir!"

[Ref Flunkie]

Last i checked, yes. The offense occurs where the object (or wad of saliva) hits or would have hit the target. So spitting at someone who is in the PA is always a PK, and spitting at someone who is outside the PA is always a DFK (assuming you're a player on the field and the ball is in play).

Thanks, not sure what had my mind thinking that it was switched recently!!

[gosellit]

Quick question.
Anyone, are protests of matches common in your area? I cannot remember the last time a game in my area/state has been protested. Also, most tournaments that I attend have a NO PROTESTS ALLOWED policy.
Just curious.

[bluedevils]

Thanks, not sure what had my mind thinking that it was switched recently!!

It was. Not sure how many years ago. I'm thinking 2-3.

[blech]

Quick question.
Anyone, are protests of matches common in your area? I cannot remember the last time a game in my area/state has been protested. Also, most tournaments that I attend have a NO PROTESTS ALLOWED policy.
Just curious.

i was thinking the same thing. i am aware of one protest last season, on what was a clear misapplication of the laws in a pk situation near the end of what ended up being a one-goal differential game, and the ref team was spoken to and given a refresher course before the playoffs started, but the result stood.

unfortunately, if games at this level were replayed every time there was a misapplication, we'd probably end up extending the season by several weeks... i started refereeing again because i figured as a coach i couldn't complain about the situation if i wasn't prepared to be part of the solution, and i like to think that it is getting better all the time, but we've still got a long ways to go, with a lot of turnover each year making it all the more difficult.

[njref]

Yes for 1,2,5,14. This assumes that any error was arguably critical to the game.

I am not allowing a protest for number 4, contrary to everyone else, because it appears that the protesting team's own parent/supporter attempted to interfere with the play, it would be inequitable to allow a successful protest in that case even if the ref made a mistake. I am looking at this as a standard amateur match though.

To me, a successful protest requires both an error AND fairness.

[IASocFan]

1,5 YES
14 Inadequate information
the rest - NO, mostly based on whether the improper restart significantly changed the results of the game.

Quick question.
Anyone, are protests of matches common in your area? I cannot remember the last time a game in my area/state has been protested. Also, most tournaments that I attend have a NO PROTESTS ALLOWED policy.
Just curious.

In 30 years of soccer involvement, I've never been involved in a protested game situation where the game was replayed. I've been aware of several protests, but none where the league ruled that it was necessary to replay. Many years ago the local youth league set a $25 fee to file a protest. I'm not sure what the current rules provide.

[Wreave]

Many years ago the local youth league set a $25 fee to file a protest. I'm not sure what the current rules provide.

Here it's $50 or $100. Of course, most tournaments have "no protest" rules.