fooling the opponent

[atilla]

If a defending player calls out to an attacking player from behind and tricks them into thinking they're on the same team (and gets the attacking player to pass to them), is that a foul or a yellow card? If so, is that spelled out in FIFA rules?
Thanks!

[IASocFan]

It might be unsporting behaviour - in the opinion of some referee. FIFA leaves the definition of unsporting behaviour up to the referee and the instructors of the various countries, states, etc.

I have never seen this called, and rarely ever tried. My take would be to let it go - even if cleverly done. Players should recognize team mates even if they can't see them.

Comments from others?

[Gary V]

I might be inclined to caution for unsporting behavior, depending on the level of the competition. I certainly wouldn't expect to see this in competitive youth play. If it's recreational play, a simple word to cease and desist would be all that is required.

If the tactic were successful but I decided there was no need to caution, I might choose to stop play only to talk to the perpetrator. The restart then would be a dropped ball.

[Blong]

Last fall during the Intercontinental Cup between Real Madrid and Olimpia, Roberto Carlos was given a yellow for what the announcers assumed was just that. RC was a little confused at first, then the ref made a gesture to his mouth, and then he smiled and said OK, sorry 'bout that.

[pkCrouse]

On occasion I've seen this with the U-13 to U-17 range of boys. More of a division 2 or 3 problem than with the skilled players, in my opinion. Can't remember the last time I had to deal with this in a truly competitive U-19 or men's game.

Sometimes the player will say something brief, like "let through". Rarely works, but when it does it really pisses the guys off. Need to watch for a cheap retaliatory foul immediately afterwards.

Usually it's more a matter of a loud grunt or "hey" just at the moment that the opponent is about to either make a difficult trap or release a shot on goal. It's clearly intended to startle the player and could be considered to fall into the category of "verbally distracts an opponent during play or at a restart" (USB 1.i in the USSF 7&7). I've never seen it have the desired effect on the opponent and a brief chat (without stopping play) has always been sufficient to end it.

[BigBubba]

Originally posted by IASocFan
It might be unsporting behaviour - in the opinion of some referee. FIFA leaves the definition of unsporting behaviour up to the referee and the instructors of the various countries, states, etc.

I have never seen this called, and rarely ever tried. My take would be to let it go - even if cleverly done. Players should recognize team mates even if they can't see them.

Comments from others?

Why would you let it go? It is such an obvious example of unsportsman like behavior. Most refs, at least when I play, will whistle you for calling "my ball."

[blech]

Originally posted by BigBubba
Why would you let it go? It is such an obvious example of unsportsman like behavior. Most refs, at least when I play, will whistle you for calling "my ball."

I agree with Bubba. I had understood the "my ball" call to be standard at this point, and this seems a step above it.

I have seen this happen in schoolyard basketball games, but it seems unsporting to me, and I thanked myself for choosing a more sporting sport. We've cut back on diving. There was another thread about players intentionally missing penalty kicks due to handles arising from misunderstandings. Why would we allow someone to do this?

In the play originally described, I say issue a caution.

[Greyhnd00]

It rarely does work but I have seen this stressed as unsporting behavior in the DC area and in Northern michgan. I usually give a verbal to the player who tries it but would caution for unsporting behavior if an advantage was gained.

[Chicago1871]

I cannot see this as any infraction worthy of a discipline of any sorts. Every sport has it psychological 'warefare' aspect, and that's all this is. While I can't say I have ever done it, or seen it, if a player falls for it, then the opposing player deserves the ball.

[BigBubba]

Originally posted by Chicago1871
I cannot see this as any infraction worthy of a discipline of any sorts. Every sport has it psychological 'warefare' aspect, and that's all this is. While I can't say I have ever done it, or seen it, if a player falls for it, then the opposing player deserves the ball.

Well, if I was the player who got fooled and there was no call, there would be retribution. Classless play has its price.

[kevbrunton]

Anytime this has been done when I've been the CR, it hasn't worked and I've just let them know verbally that it isn't allowed. Usually, it's from the youngsters and with them, I just let them know at the next stoppage that in soccer it's not allowed like some other sports.

I have seen it cautioned twice in games I was watching when it did actually work. I felt the cards were justified and would have done the same. A lot of the other spectators were complaining, but when I explained to those around me the reason for it, almost all of them felt that it was a good thing.

[Chicago1871]

Originally posted by BigBubba
Well, if I was the player who got fooled and there was no call, there would be retribution. Classless play has its price.
No doubt. If it ever happened to me, first I would make a mental note to kick myself later, and second I would be sure to clean out this individual in the very near future.

Another thing to add: I agree that it would be a classless move to try something like this, but calling it "unsportsman-like" is just nit picking a bit too much for me. Maybe a warning to the player, but not a card. Just my opinion.

[BigBubba]

Originally posted by Chicago1871
No doubt. If it ever happened to me, first I would make a mental note to kick myself later, and second I would be sure to clean out this individual in the very near future.

Another thing to add: I agree that it would be a classless move to try something like this, but calling it "unsportsman-like" is just nit picking a bit too much for me. Maybe a warning to the player, but not a card. Just my opinion.

But if a ref had whistled the foul, I wouldn't need to apply retribution. That is what the ref is there for.

[whipple]

The ATR 12.28.1 lists "verbally distracts an opponent during play or at a restart" as cautionable misconduct. The judgement a referee must make is not whether this is misconduct or whether to caution, but when.

As Kev and Grey have pointed out, if the verbal distraction has no effect, a few choice words to the offender, may be the most prudent way of dealing with this, since their efforts were to no avail.

If, however, the misconduct disadvantages an opponent, I would recommend you stop play immediately, deal with the miscondtuct, make sure both teams understand that this will not be tolerated and that the matter is now a dead issue. This is critically important because, as pk has suggested, nothing triggers retaliation more than a player unfairly making a fool out of his opponent. We must make certain this is defused.

I rarely see this in the premier youth leagues I work, but it is more common at the town travel level and in a few of the high schools. I have also seen a lot in small sided play at the older 16 - 19 boys level.

[Law 5]

I was just having a chat with a coach from England the other day regarding this very thing. He was extremely surprised (as were others who've I talked with) that the referees in the States don't call this. He indicated that at the youth level (across the pond) players' are regularly cautioned (or at the very least admonished) for USB when calling, "My ball", or, "I've got it!" He said that the correct procedure was to say something like, "Joe's ball", or, "Joe's got it!" By the time they get to the pros it's been engrained in them the proper method of calling for the ball.

It's really no different than sitting behind an opponent and screaming at them just when they are to recieve the ball. It's a form of "Gamesmanship".

Cheers

[boydreilly]

Originally posted by Law 5
He was extremely surprised (as were others who've I talked with) that the referees in the States don't call this.


I guess it must be a regional thing because they sure call it in the DC area.

[Greyhnd00]

Originally posted by Chicago1871
No doubt. If it ever happened to me, first I would make a mental note to kick myself later, and second I would be sure to clean out this individual in the very near future.

Another thing to add: I agree that it would be a classless move to try something like this, but calling it "unsportsman-like" is just nit picking a bit too much for me. Maybe a warning to the player, but not a card. Just my opinion. YOUR statement is the exact reason why we MUST call this.....

[Grizzlierbear]

Originally posted by Law 5
I was just having a chat with a coach from England the other day regarding this very thing. He was extremely surprised (as were others who've I talked with) that the referees in the States don't call this. He indicated that at the youth level (across the pond) players' are regularly cautioned (or at the very least admonished) for USB when calling, "My ball", or, "I've got it!" He said that the correct procedure was to say something like, "Joe's ball", or, "Joe's got it!" By the time they get to the pros it's been engrained in them the proper method of calling for the ball.

It's really no different than sitting behind an opponent and screaming at them just when they are to recieve the ball. It's a form of "Gamesmanship".

Cheers

Just thinking about this gives me a headache . No where in the laws is calling mine or my ball or let it go a foul. Verbal deception IF it disadvantages an opponent COULD be considered USB. We tread a thin line when we try to seperate legal gamesmenship, common sense and intent to decieve.

IF you stop a match because of a "MINE or MY ball!" call and you restart with only an INDFK?
You also MUST caution! Or restart with a drop ball for an inadvertant whistle as suggested by GARY V. While I understand the tendancy to only give an INDFK as a management tool it is not a legal option available to a referee to halt play for USB and not issue a caution.

This is not impeding although many try to attach that label, either it is USB and cautionable or we have a stern word to smarten up as it COULD be considered USB and do they really wish to lose posession for that???

I will often roar out "Put a name on it!" Or ask "Who's up for it?", particularily in youth games.
I have even cautioned a player for yelling their own name into the ear of the opponent, he even went so far as to cup his hands CHRIS's BALL!!!.

It is also a problem when coaches yell out instructions to young players like LET it GO! and both defenders and attackers stop, used to recieving demands by adults.
How would you all handle this kind of tactic?

Think about these and consider where you draw the line as trickery to produce an unfair advantage?

He is offside! (when he is not)
Pass it to me! (not a team mate)
I am here if you need me! (not a team mate)
Let it Go! (when both teams contesting for the ball)
Mine! (in a crowd)

[Tame Lion]

Originally posted by Grizzlierbear
He is offside! (when he is not)
Pass it to me! (not a team mate)
I am here if you need me! (not a team mate)
Let it Go! (when both teams contesting for the ball)
Mine! (in a crowd)
What about these said to an opponent
Butterfingers, miss it! (to the opposing keeper on a shot on goal)
Your shorts are falling down! (when they are not, to steal the ball)

[boydreilly]

Originally posted by Grizzlierbear

Think about these and consider where you draw the line as trickery to produce an unfair advantage?

He is offside! (when he is not)
Pass it to me! (not a team mate)
I am here if you need me! (not a team mate)
Let it Go! (when both teams contesting for the ball)
Mine! (in a crowd)

1.) Yelling at the ref. Card him if you want.
2.) Card. Trying to trick an oppenent is USB.
3.) Let it slide. Maybe he's just offering moral support.
4.) See 2.
5.) See 2.