Olsen in the middle, specifically - ? (R)

[jamesf24]

As far as I'm concerned, this experiment should be dead! He was non existent, nothing to help out Pablo, who didnt have a good game either.

James

[Poachin_Goalz]

Olsen didn't play very well in the middle on Saturday. It may be a little to early to scrap the idea however.

[cyberthoth]

i think the biggest problem with this experiment is we tried it against argentina....perhaps things would be different if olsen had played there against el salvador and canada first.

that said...my guess is it won't work in the long term. olsen plays good defense and is a decent passer but what he does best is frustrate the other team...i think if anything...a move to the middle for him may work better in the def mid spot....where he could be something of an abmod with offensive skills.

that said...it's pretty obvious bruce was trying to get the best 11 on the field and i think olsen's place in the middle says a lot more about the lack of faith in twellman than anything else. in otherwords...klein\olsen are both better than twellman and it's worth trying to see if olsen can allow donovan to move up top and twellman to the bench.

cyberthoth

[ursula]

Late last MLS season, Ray Hudson put Olsen in as a forward in a crucial game vs the metros. (This was the game that Jaime Moreno was playing ping-pong and couldn't play.) Now Olsen was obviously still playing himself into shape but with each game in his normal right wing position he was looking more and more dangerous.

But against the metros, playing really withdrawn forward, he was awful. Couldn't hold the ball, couldn't create for others, couldn't crate space for himself. really it was a waste to put him there.

The next game he was back on the wing and continued to improve in fitness and ability.

I know the above example isn't exactly what happened yesterday, but it fits a pattern of Olsen in the pro ranks.

In 99 (remember when DCU was good? Some of you older folks may remember.) Thomas Rongen played Olsen a few games at a-mid when Etcheverry and Moreno were unavailable and neither Jason Moore nor Antonio Otero did anything good in the position. Benny did okay, I suppose, better than Otero or Moore (which is damning with faint praise) but he was obviously uncomfortable and not nearly as creative as he is out on the wing.

So it seems clear to me that Olsen is a winger, period. Maybe he could learn to play right back in a 442, but that's basically the same position, just further back to him. He'd just have to learn defense more which I think would come more naturally to him than it does to Convey, say (who is a central mid at heart). In that respect he's much like Hedjuk. But he can't play in the center of midfield against quality international opposition. St Kitts and Nevis, yes. Argentina's B or C or Z squad, no.

If Arena thinks that Olsen is too slow to play the wing then either 1) Olsen will regain that step he needs as he continues to cvome back from injury or 2) Olsen moves out of the core group of Nats teamers to be called up mainly when others are hurt and to be used in emergencies only.

I'm biased towards Ben. I think he'll be the normal starting right winger down the line. But no way he'll be a central midfielder of any type.

[Serie Zed]

Even having lost a step, it's hard to imagine that Olsen is slower than Klein.

And even if Olsen in the middle didn't work (and doesn't work in the future), this time of the cycle is for exactly these sorts of experiments and I'm glad Arena continues to try.

That's kind of been lost in the whole discussion of the match I think -- Arena probably learned a lot.

[The Wanderer]

Originally posted by ursula
If Arena thinks that Olsen is too slow to play the wing then either 1) Olsen will regain that step he needs as he continues to cvome back from injury or 2) Olsen moves out of the core group of Nats teamers to be called up mainly when others are hurt and to be used in emergencies only.

I guess we'll see in MLS this year, but I think the long term prospects for Ben regaining that lost step would be low. God knows we need him and he was such a lock for right wing before his injuries, but we may see less and less of Ben for the national team.

[highlander]

Originally posted by The Wanderer
I guess we'll see in MLS this year, but I think the long term prospects for Ben regaining that lost step would be low. God knows we need him and he was such a lock for right wing before his injuries, but we may see less and less of Ben for the national team.

I have thought for quite some time that Ben Olsen will have a short career if he doesn't stop running himself into the ground. I'm certainly no mind reader, but I felt that this might have been the reasoning behind this attacking midfield experiment, regardless of what Arena said publicly. Ben Olsen does not have a body like Frankie Heyduk's that can go and go and go, and then go and go and go some more. Ben Olsen gets tired and he gets injured. The last injury layoff was two years.

I was really hoping that this experiment would work better. It is hard to enjoy watching him on the flank when I know what he is doing to his body and to his career. Wouldn't it be ironic if the one part of his game that is hurting him the most is the part that makes him most valuable to his club team and the national team? I think it's a shame. I hope that something can be worked out that will allow Ben to be productive without breaking his body down to the point of exhaustion and injury.

[jamesf24]

Originally posted by ursula
Late last MLS season, Ray Hudson put Olsen in as a forward in a crucial game vs the metros. (This was the game that Jaime Moreno was playing ping-pong and couldn't play.) Now Olsen was obviously still playing himself into shape but with each game in his normal right wing position he was looking more and more dangerous.

But against the metros, playing really withdrawn forward, he was awful. Couldn't hold the ball, couldn't create for others, couldn't crate space for himself. really it was a waste to put him there.

The next game he was back on the wing and continued to improve in fitness and ability.

Exactly. I didnt see anything that made me want to see it again.

But then I remember Benny on the right, I remember the testimonial game at the end of last season, in England, against Tottenham, and with him being out of shape, he was torching those EPL guys up and down the flank. Great crossing, etc. If Benny is going to be with the national team, he needs to beat out Klein, beat out Ralston, and heck, possibly even beat out Reyna or Donovan, depending on what develops over the next couple of years. Klein looks slower than he is, but that's because it takes Ben 3 steps for 1 of Kleins's. :) Klein is better able to keep his shot down, but I think Ben works harder and deliver's a better cross. It should be a good battle. Ralston BTW, is almost a little of both, not as strong as Klein, not as tenacious as Ben, he could be a factor is he get's some toughness and drive.

James

[passtheblizz]

Olsen is a winger, plain and simple. No one can contain him... not even himself! He needs a lot of space to work. On the sideline, he uses more space than anyone else I have seen for the US, even Cobi. His crazy ranging somehow works to his advantage. I have seen this many times, though I can almost not believe it. He runs like crazy in some random direction until the defender is behind him, then he turns and goes in a different direction... often useful. Maybe not pretty, but he wears the crap out of his guy and opens up the field a lot. He might go out of bounds, or trip and fall, but he never slows down. Very entertaining.

I am also not sold on Klein... He is obviously a viable option, but I would even prefer Ralston at this point. Klein just hasn't been able to do any of the things that he does in the MLS, because the game is much faster. Ralston is a quick thinker, and a better finisher and crosser, though not as fast.

BTW, Olsen looks fast enough to me. In that charity game in England a few months ago he was all over the place. I think that his inclusion at center-mid was just an excuse for Klein to get some more PT.

[afgrijselijkheid]

it was quite ghastly indeed - not his fault, at his size he shouldnt be inside - he is a wing threat through and through

as far it being against argentina: i got news for ya, that wasnt argentina - they were a good side but cmon - not only would plenty of international A teams wallop that group, but i could think of several B sides that could handle'em (ahem...ours not being one them)

[Casper]

Originally posted by ursula
Late last MLS season, Ray Hudson put Olsen in as a forward in a crucial game vs the metros. (This was the game that Jaime Moreno was playing ping-pong and couldn't play.) Now Olsen was obviously still playing himself into shape but with each game in his normal right wing position he was looking more and more dangerous.

But against the metros, playing really withdrawn forward, he was awful. Couldn't hold the ball, couldn't create for others, couldn't crate space for himself. really it was a waste to put him there.



As a Metros fan, I was terrified of Ben in that game. Maybe it just has to do with our different perspectives. Stuff he did never seemed to ultimately work, but I was sure worried in the meantime.

[nobody]

Olsen in the middle was a joke. He doesn't play with anything resembling the kind of control he needs to be effective at that level in the middle. He doesn't pass well enough, control the ball tightly enough, understand when to move forward and when to drop back enough. In short, he's just not cut out for it.

I'm not against Ben, and think he needs to get some more time on the wing and get himself together there. Even if he's lost a bit of a step, you can't tell me he's not as fast as Klien.

So, Benny on the nats, yes. Benny in the middle, please god, no.

[MLSNHTOWN]

Based on BA's comments, Benny might be another tweener. BA said that Benny didn't get run out on the wing because he doesn't fell Benny has the speed to play on the wings. The middle was a disaster today. D-mid might be better, I don't know, but we all know the A-mid position didn't work.

[dolphinscoach]

Put me in the "Olsen belongs on the wing" camp. That said, I am not sure that this was a fair test for him at A-Mid. Argentina, even with a B squad, plays at such a fast tempo, it would have to be difficult for just about anyone trying to adjust to a new role. (For example, Convey looked suspect in defense, a role less familiar to him, but looked quite good attacking later in the match.) In addition, the US did not have much of the ball in the first half. Too many long balls just cleared by the defense with no intended target, and often no American anywhere near where the ball was played. You can make the case that this shows the midfield did a poor job of linking with the back (and vice versa), but as the forward-most midfielder, Olsen is perhaps less culpable.

On the other hand . . . . Arena may have thought (as I did, when I heard Olsen would be A-Mid) that the way Benny flies to the ball with speed would be a problem for Argentina. When Argentina had the ball, I expected to see Olsen playing a destroyer role, harassing the defenders and battling in midfield alongside Pablo. Instead, the center of the midfield looked open and Argentina moved almost at will. When the US had the ball, I didn't notice him much--but then, the US gave the ball away so quickly (see above).

[edcrocker]

Originally posted by nobody
Even if he's lost a bit of a step, you can't tell me Olsen's not as fast as Klien.


Klein's fast. Over 40 yds or 100 meters without the ball, I bet he's one of our fastest guys.

Different note: Ben Olsen is not ready yet. He's still gimpy. Arena shouldn't even be calling him up. He had a nice goal against El Salvador. But he's just not right. He need to rest. It seems to me that all this work is going to slow down his recovery. Sometimes you just got let your body heal. It takes time. Especially after four surgeries. Ben, slooooooooow down.

[spot]

Originally posted by edcrocker

Different note: Ben Olsen is not ready yet. He's still gimpy. Arena shouldn't even be calling him up. He had a nice goal against El Salvador. But he's just not right. He need to rest. It seems to me that all this work is going to slow down his recovery. Sometimes you just got let your body heal. It takes time. Especially after four surgeries. Ben, slooooooooow down.

It appears that you're are dead on about Olsen's health.

http://www.soccertimes.com/usteams/2003/feb11.htm

The article says that he left the game at half time because of pain in his ankle.

I still think he has no business in the center of the pitch, but I hope this doesn't set him back too much. He's still welcome to play out wide.