Two Random thoughts about Argentina[R]

[Bobplayed]

Landon Donovan should be playing in the midfield IMO. Especially since Reyna is probably gone until next WC... In the first half we were beaten in the center of the midfield constantly... In the second half Landon stemed much of the Argentina pressure and I thought we played much better. Landon Also showed a fire that I have never seen him have, the anouncers criticized him unfairly IMO you need that to play at a high level...

Was anyone else impressed by our central defense? Other than the goal (which was bad but more the central midfielders fault than the central defences) Calif and Boca showed me that they can survive under a large amount of pressure... Calif seems to be a whipping boy but today i thought he played very well.

[Turk from Pigs Eye]

Originally posted by Bobplayed

Was anyone else impressed by our central defense? Other than the goal (which was bad but more the central midfielders fault than the central defences) Calif and Boca showed me that they can survive under a large amount of pressure... Calif seems to be a whipping boy but today i thought he played very well.

Bruce Arena was, and several other BS posters. Bruce's postgame quotes are up on the CNNSI site.

[ProudNatRN]

Amen bro, amen. I don't know what some of the other BS'ers were watching, but Arena and I were right on with our post-game comments. I have to admit though, his was a little more P.C. that what I said... :-)

[The Wanderer]

Originally posted by Bobplayed
Landon Donovan should be playing in the midfield IMO.

I think Convey should get a shot at attacking mid/central mid since he appears to be a better ball handler than Donovan. Otherwise, I don't think the central defense looked that bad. Bocanegra would have gone to the last WC if he hadn't gotten injured, so he's looking pretty much like a lock so far. I think the jury's still out on Califf. He looked a lot better than he did against South Korea last year.

[USA4Life]

Convey and Donovan together in midfield with Mastroeni in support.

3-5-2 is the way to go with this group of players.

The team has a few guys that can operate as ACMs
Donovan, Mathis, Convey, Kirovski can all play the spot.

The backs that can win tackles are not good at going forward.

The team also has the horses to play the very demanding role of outside mid in 3-5-2.
Klein, DMB, and Olsen can run all day. Lewis and Sanneh can also play outside mid and cover 120 yds.

Therefore, let Convey and Donovan play center mid together.

[Tejas]

Originally posted by The Wanderer
I think Convey should get a shot at attacking mid/central mid since he appears to be a better ball handler than Donovan.

I can see where you are going in all of these threads Wanderer, and I don't totally disagree that BC should be given some time to shown he has the skills, but as far as the comparison above goes I have to disagree. Convey does not have better ball handling skill than Donovan. They are close, sure, but LD has demonstrated equal if not better ball handling ability in the past than Convey.

If you use today's game as a comparison it is unfair because LD was slotted in the second half to the center mid role where he was expected to distribute and fill space more than handle the ball and run at players on the dribble. Convey looked good no doubt coming forward, but he was able to make the impressive runs largely because his position called upon him to do it. Running at the defense and holding the ball under pressure are two different forms of ballhandling and as things stand now I think that LD is simply better at relieving pressure by his quick passing ability than Convey is. I don't think that either of them are that far apart in skill terms, but Donovan is just a tad better in my opinion when it comes to handling the ball under pressure and one timing passes to teammates.

I don't know if you followed the U20 World Championship games in Argentina, but in those games Convey, LD and DMB all played together. LD played in the center in those games while Convey played on the wing. LD was slotted to the center in those games for a lot of reasons, just as he is now. I won't say that Convey will never beat him out in the position, but as for now, it is LDs to lose.

[halfnelson31]

don u think playing him i at mf in mls and usmnt might stunt his devlopment when he projects as a forward in europe

[tubby_butter]

I think that if Donovan was a better finisher, nobody would be saying that he belongs in the midfield. Since he can pass better than most of the players in the talent pool, people think he belongs in midfield, but I disagree. If he plays midfield, put him on the right. His most dangerous moments are bursting into space and making decisions at a high pace going forward. I just think that there are too many other responsibilites for him to tend to in center mid, and while effective, not nearly as dangerous as when playing up-front. It is my hope that he improves his finishing, and proves himself as an outright attacker.

[DigitalTron]

I think Donovan can play central midfield well. But with his knack for finishing, deceptionally good speed, and unselfishness I think the US is best served with him at forward. Guys who can finish are very rare, and one that is the total package (minus being a dominant aerial threat) are simply too valuable to put anywhere besides forward.

And frankly, I think Convey is slightly better than Donovan at central attacking midfield. Convey's vision is uncanny. While he definitely still has some growing to do in the position, particularly on his positional defending and showing for the ball offensively, he has the perfect skill set for central attacking mid. Convey often dribbles the ball to create space for other midfielders' runs and then dumps them the ball at the proper time into the proper space. Convey rarely is dispossessed on the dribble, and is already a responsible passer and that is improving. Convey sees, creates and anticipates dangerous opportunities. He then delivers the killer short to medium pass. His long passing skills can improve though.

Also, Donovan's creativity, holding and passing make an excellent complement to Convey as a central midfielder. Given that both combine well with DaMarcus Beasley, and that Convey can effortlessly switch with DaMarcus and become an excellent left winger, it just seems like a perfect triumvarate.

I see Donovan being able to back up the central attacking midfielder spot for 2006, but start as a forward. I expect the midfield creation to come primarily from guys like O'Brien, Reyna and two young guns, Convey and Martino. I think Convey will be our primary distributor.

-Tron

[The Wanderer]

Originally posted by Tejas
Convey does not have better ball handling skill than Donovan. They are close, sure, but LD has demonstrated equal if not better ball handling ability in the past than Convey.

I think you should watch the tape again and see how many guys Convey blows past. When is the last time LD ran at two or three guys and beat them off the dribble? LD is better suited to withdrawn forward IMHO, where he can create up top and score sometimes. LD's passes from midfield are often intercepted, simply because he has limited vision when it comes to seeing the whole field. Hence, I think LD is wasted too deep in the midfield. He needs to be right behind the forwards for his effectiveness to be maximized. Convey, on the other hand, shows more vision for being a Reyna type player deeper in the midfield IMHO. However, he seems to be a more skilled attacker than Reyna does, so I could see him in LD's current role also.

Ideally, you get both LD, Convey and Beasley out on the pitch, and it's not by making one of them a left back.

------Mathis-LD
--------Convey
Beasley--------RW
--------Mastroeni
LB---CB----CB---RB

[jri]

Wanderer- I agree with you on (what I think) is your basic point: Convey is a very talented player that should play a key role in Nat future.....Going back 2-3 years ago, I thought he had more potential than Beasley (and said so), and I still do today...however, ultimately I don't know which position he'll wind up..

I think Stoitchkov is going to help him make the next leap...

[Ajaciedian]

Why not experiment with a 3-5-2. We have a glut of midfielders at the moment and if the Convey at left back experiment doesn't work, I think we have to go to a 3-5-2. If Eddie Pope gets back to the Eddie Pope of old, then he holds down the center position and you build around him. Bocanegra could move out to the right or left. Sanneh could fill in the right, Cherundolo could fill in the right, Claudio Reyna could fill in the right, any number of people could fill in the right.

JOB could hold hold down the back of the midfield, with Chris Armas and Mastro backing him up. Convey, Donovan, Mathis, and DMB could hold down the other four midfield spots with Convey and Donovan switching between holding down the right flank (with the help of Reyna) and moving into the middle to keep the opponents off guard. Up top, there are a plethora of options. If McBride keeps scoring like he is for Everton, you have to keep him up top. Running off of McBride we have many options. Wolff, Kirovski, Quaranta, Conor Casey, Taylor Twellman... McBride changes our whole shape and method of attack and I don't think we should rule anyone out until they play with McBride. McBride, especially playing like he is now, is a lock and you should get a chance to play off him before a decision is made, if not in a match then in training.

Just my thoughts. Could be right, could be wrong...


KD

[The Wanderer]

Originally posted by Ajaciedian
Just my thoughts. Could be right, could be wrong...


KD

Given the dearth of domestic talent at RB and LB, 3-5-2 is looking more and more like the formation to use.

[JohnnyRev]

I would put Beasley on the bench. He gave the ball away time after time with bad passes.

[USA4Life]

Lewis is better than Beasley. Lewis should start and Beasley should be the super sub off the bench.

The team needs crosses as part of the attack.
Guys Raston, Lewis, and Convey (if in midfield) can all cross the ball.

Twellman has to be frustrated with the lack of crosses/service.

Maybe Twellman should be partnered with Donovan and Mathis sits. This means convey is sloted behind the forwards or Mathis plays the ACM with Convey wide. Either way, the team needs more mobility up front. Mathis and Beasley did not get it done.

Mathis and Beasley were the clog in the offense against argentina.

[Metrogo]

I think the weird formation and the lack of game fitness makes it difficult to draw many conclusions, but I agree on both points the initial poster made. Landon Donovan was, frankly, the only player yesterday who showed a little class on the pitch and is much more effective as an attacking middie.

I did like the way Califf and Boca played, I think. They seemed to make convincing tackles. However, were they forced to tackle so often because they were out of position too often? I'm not sure, but maybe.

I'm shocked about what people are saying about Mathis. It amazes me. Without getting into the argument about fitness, attitude etc., when you look back on the games that he's actually played for the USMNT, can you honestly say he is not one of the best, if not the best, offensive player? Yes, he had a bad game yesterday, but so did everyone except Landon and maybe Califf and Bocanegra.

[L127]

If you break the game into thirds, the first was chasing; the second was getting a rythem; the third was trying to equalize. They were done, physically by the end of the first half. The second half for them was all about stopping and stifling anything that was coming in through the middle. Just laying back and countering. We did not possess the ball in the first third of the game and thus were not able to put them on their defensive. The second third was us putting a few passes together and them slowing down and defending. The third was ours for the taking but we were not able to get it done. They deserve credit for holding us off. Whatever experiment was taking place should serve notice that we need more controlling midfielders, while at the same time keeping traffic from becoming too wide open.

[Eliezar]

Originally posted by tubby_butter
I think that if Donovan was a better finisher, nobody would be saying that he belongs in the midfield. Since he can pass better than most of the players in the talent pool, people think he belongs in midfield, but I disagree. If he plays midfield, put him on the right. His most dangerous moments are bursting into space and making decisions at a high pace going forward. I just think that there are too many other responsibilites for him to tend to in center mid, and while effective, not nearly as dangerous as when playing up-front. It is my hope that he improves his finishing, and proves himself as an outright attacker.

I think Tubby is spot on.

Donovan is most effective up front if he will finish and his best midfield performances are based around the space given to wide midfielders.

Not a knock to Donovan, but I think we have a few players that are better allround central midfielders than Donovan is. I'd like to see Convey get a shot in the center of the field and I'd also like to see JOB healthy so he can continue to be a vital piece in the center of the field for us.

If I had to run out a best US lineup tomorrow and we had no injuries I'd definitely be going with this

McBride Donovan

DMB JOB Reyna Olsen
Mastro

Boca Pope Sanneh

Friedel

And I'd definitely have Mathis, Lewis, Convey, Berhalter, Wolff, Klein, Barrett, and Keller on the bench. For me that's our best 18 currently. A lot of options with the ability to slide Wade Barrett in at left back and go to a 4-4-2 or putting Donovan at right mid and starting Mathis or Wolff up top and if DMB is getting fouled out of the game we have Lewis and Convey that can come in on the left to fill his spot as well as having the option of Convey playing for JOB or Reyna. That's just me though...

[lasoccervegas2002]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by USA4Life
[B]
Twellman has to be frustrated with the lack of crosses/service.




TT obviously a great goal scorer for his club, this must have something to do with players around him who gave him great crosses and passing, why BA don't call those guys to the camp ? i believe those guys must be quality players and diserve to be in the nat team.

[rymannryan]

Originally posted by Bobplayed

Was anyone else impressed by our central defense? Other than the goal (which was bad but more the central midfielders fault than the central defences) Calif and Boca showed me that they can survive under a large amount of pressure... Calif seems to be a whipping boy but today i thought he played very well.



I was impressed and this is the best I've seen Danny play for the nats. He wasn't great but he did his job and I was pleasantly suprised.