BA: Pre-WC Anti-Scouting Strategy?

[Li mu bei]

Prior to the WC, in our remaining matches, will BA consistently field our "starting" or "first-choice" WC team and formation, i.e., will he give away our probable WC line-ups and tactics to our opposition?

Will he give away 90%, 80%, 70%, etc. of our potential line-ups and formations?

Will he field the same starters from game to game, the same formation, etc?

Does it matter what he does in this regard, viz., giving a clear picture to the opposition?

What are the pros and cons of building cohesion at the expense of secrecy?

Last WC, BA fielded different line-ups which used different tactics, each game. Ignoring Germany and Poland, it is arguable that our opposition couldn't effectively scout or respond to our tactics last WC.

I think it is fair to say that we will receive much more attention this time around . . . what result?

Please discuss . . . .

[Adam Zebrowski]

if we look at the squad, most have played together for quite a period of time...

there aren't many new guys who'll play big roles...

let's say

keller
chreundolo onyewu gibbs lewis
reyna mastroeni
dempsey beasley
donovan mcbride

is the line-up....

even if convey or johnson start, or pope or bocanegra or berhalter, all the guys are very familiar...

the extended may camp with the 3 friendlies should be more than sufficient to get usa act together....

[Heathens '87]

Our players are known and our coach has been in place for a number of years so our system is known. I just don't see much advantage in trying to play cat-and-mouse with line-ups and formations with that in mind. Now, I hope we don't show all our cards on set-plays, as the Mexico game revealed the importance of being able to pull that surprise. If there's an availability issue, I'd expect Bruce to be a little coy.

Otherwise, line 'em up and let's play. We're not a minnow anymore....

[Adam Zebrowski]

interesting point about not showing your hand on set plays...

against poland the two best chances were taken by cherundolo and lewis...with donovan dummying...

in a wc match in june, I suspect donovan would have taken BOTH free kicks

[FanOfFutbol]

At WC time the only surprises left are either teams playing vastly under/over their previous showings or teams lineups altered by injuries.

In the last WC we seemed to surprise several teams but, I believe that it was mainly the forced addition of Mastro that caused the teams to underrate us.

Although it is debatable whether we were truly better after the addition it is clear that we were different and that difference caused problems for teams. (But it could, just as easily, have been more problems for us.)

As far as deriving scouting advantages; I doubt that anything worthwhile could be hidden at this point except some trick play to exploit a weakness in set piece defense.

So I believe that The Bruce should simply play his cards face up so he can really be as sure as possible that we have the best combo on the field in the best formation for each team we face in the WC.

Trying to be tricky is doomed to failure. The emphasis needs to be on forming the best team not hiding our best from the other guys.

[Heathens '87]

interesting point about not showing your hand on set plays...

against poland the two best chances were taken by cherundolo and lewis...with donovan dummying...

in a wc match in june, I suspect donovan would have taken BOTH free kicks


In my opinion, a lot of success in the World Cup format comes down to set-plays. There is talent all around, but getting them to play as a team is a different issue. Set plays are all coaching and execution...drill, drill, drill. That comes down to teamwork.

This was a strength of the squad in 2002, and though CONCACAF qualifying. The corner against Mexico that resulted in the Beasley goal was beautiful, and came from the guys knowing each other.

In the May friendlies, I'd expect the team to work on accuracy and positioning with set-plays, both offense and defensive, but stop just short of revealing the second-pass, movement in the wall, dummying, or poaching runs.

Having your opponent be a bit confused about what you're doing on a set-play leads to mistakes. Bruce knows this, and will hold some things back in the pre-WC friendlies. In the normal run of play, that's far more instictive, and hard for guys to hold back. Outside of set pieces, let 'em play....

[Li mu bei]

if we look at the squad, most have played together for quite a period of time...

there aren't many new guys who'll play big roles...

let's say

keller
chreundolo onyewu gibbs lewis
reyna mastroeni
dempsey beasley
donovan mcbride

is the line-up....

even if convey or johnson start, or pope or bocanegra or berhalter, all the guys are very familiar...

the extended may camp with the 3 friendlies should be more than sufficient to get usa act together....

I agree with that line-up as a base and with the proposition that the players, generally, have played with each other for quite a while.

However, compared to what we've played over the last two years , I think the "minor" changes--Reyna at mid and Donovan withdrawn--in that line-up are huge in terms of tactics and chemistry. When was the last time LD played Forward or Reyna played at all, let alone with our "A-team"? When was the last time any opposing team saw LD withdrawn, Reyna on the field, and our A-team together?

I guess I wonder whether the effect of "minor" changes in our line-up and formation are really so "minor." It seems at least with the above example of Reyna and Donovan, the changes affect our entire dynamic.

This time around, do you really think that we will field the same team and formation throughout the opening round? Will we field the same team, but alter the formation?

Even as someone who religiously follows the USMNT, it is often extremely difficult to get into BA's head and determine who and what he will field on any given day. I realize that Il Bruce has been giving a lot of looks in preparation for the WC, and I realize that a few players have locked down starts, but the basic difficulty of predicting BA's moves has always been there.

[Through-Ball]

Having the 1st team play together as much as possible before the World Cup will contribute more to the success of the team overall than will any attempts to confuse the opposition prior to the WC by masking strategies and formations. The system Arena uses is well-known and can be studied by looking at prior matches.

I would, however, suggest that there are some wrinkles/set plays/tactics that won't be used in any pre-WC friendly. Those will stay in the closed-door practices until they are used in actual WC games.

[Heathens '87]

When was the last time LD played Forward or Reyna played at all, let alone with our "A-team"? When was the last time any opposing team saw LD withdrawn, Reyna on the field, and our A-team together?

I'm not trying to be a smart-arse when I say this, but I ran the DVD-recorder on our qualifying and Gold Cup games, and you can find all these things and more. Availability may be an issue once we're down to rosters being announced, but any coaching staff that watches those games would find most everything revealed about formations and positions. It's all there if someone takes the time....

[Adam Zebrowski]

arena has about three weeks to refocus the chemistry between players...

I think the key is most of the guys are very familiar, and rekindling their chemistry shouldn't be too difficult....

perhaps getting EJ in tune might require more effort...

getting onyewu and gibbs in sync might be more difficult than other pairing...

but I think collectively, usa will be a team, and that might be the best asset going for it.

[Minnman]

Perhaps I'm dead wrong, but I'm still doubtful that much of the rest of the world really understands how to scout the US. I'm not even sure it's a respect thing, they just don't understand who we are as a national team.

[Heathens '87]

Perhaps I'm dead wrong, but I'm still doubtful that much of the rest of the world really understands how to scout the US. I'm not even sure it's a respect thing, they just don't understand who we are as a national team.


I'd like to agree with you, but I still feel the long-term outcome of the Portugal game in 2002 is that we moved into the must-scout category. I don't think that's a respect thing, as the big squads likely think we've easily beaten if effectively scouted, but we've enough success at the international level to be taken seriously. We're also not playing teams in the first-round that are going to come in cocky, well, at least their coaching staffs won't.....

[Adam Zebrowski]

playing the disrespect card just isn't gonna work...

when it's your job to know everything and anything about who you're gonna play, you do your job....

it's the height of arrogance to think people disrespect you....

it's NOT like usa is togo.....

over half the guys on the final 23 are euro based....

just like arena has assigned ONE coach to scout each of the group sides, te rest of the usa group have people allocated to scout out the usa....

onyewu will be no mystery to bruckner....

they'll break down the tapes, just like any one else does.

[Li mu bei]

I'm not trying to be a smart-arse when I say this, but I ran the DVD-recorder on our qualifying and Gold Cup games, and you can find all these things and more.

No.

As far as I can tell . . . We played 20 games in 2005.

Reyna played twice in 2005, in both WCQs v. Mexico.

Other than those two games, Donovan and Reyna were not on the field together.

I think that is huge.

Availability may be an issue once we're down to rosters being announced, but any coaching staff that watches those games would find most everything revealed about formations and positions.

Not to be a smart-arse, but do you mean other than the fact that Reyna will be playing mid and Donovan withdrawn?

It's all there if someone takes the time....

That's what I question, is it really?

I have yet to look at 2004 . . . .

[superdave]

3-6-1

[Li mu bei]

Perhaps I'm dead wrong, but I'm still doubtful that much of the rest of the world really understands how to scout the US. I'm not even sure it's a respect thing, they just don't understand who we are as a national team.

I think that I agree with you.

Additionally, I don't really know how to "scout" the US.

Further, I'm not sure that you can look at tapes and actually "scout" us.

As I just posted, LD and CR have played together twice in 20 games in 2005 and not at all this year. During that period we won our Continental Championship and qualified for the World Cup.

At any given game, I know who I wish was in the pool, who actually is in the pool, who I would like to see from the actual pool, and based on that . . . get upset when BA doesn't see everything as I do. ;)

What will our opposition see?

LD at Forward? CR on the pitch? A definite midfield core? A probable backline? Known "wingbacks"?

[gaucho]

No.

As far as I can tell . . . We played 20 games in 2005.

Reyna played twice in 2005, in both WCQs v. Mexico.

Other than those two games, Donovan and Reyna were not on the field together.

I think that is huge.



You can bet that any scout worth his salt is going to take a look at WC 2002. Plenty of games to see Donovan and Reyna on the same field if that's of special interest.

And it's not as if each of them has a lack of caps under Arena: you can see how he likes to use both players, even if they aren't on the field at the same time.

[Slingerfan1977]

No.
Reyna played twice in 2005, in both WCQs v. Mexico.

Other than those two games, Donovan and Reyna were not on the field together.This isn't correct and you are ignoring the rest of qualifying

Reyna played in 8 of our 18 qualifiers and Donovan was on the field with Reyna in all of them.

Heathens '87 is correct. If anyone has tape of the last 2 years they've pretty much seen it all. Even JOB. There's not going to be any great surprises this time round.

[Li mu bei]

3-6-1

So if Arena pulls a Sampson, would it be consistently fielding Donovan at A-mid and playing without Claudio (for almost 2 years) . . . then going to the WC . . . and playing Claudio at mid and Donovan at withdrawn forward?

[Li mu bei]

No.
Reyna played twice in 2005, in both WCQs v. Mexico.

Other than those two games, Donovan and Reyna were not on the field together.This isn't correct and you are ignoring the rest of qualifying

Reyna played in 8 of our 18 qualifiers and Donovan was on the field with Reyna in all of them.

Heathens '87 is correct. If anyone has tape of the last 2 years they've pretty much seen it all. Even JOB. There's not going to be any great surprises this time round.

If you can find a game in 2005 besides the two games against Mexico where both Reyna and Donovan played, please let me know.

Besides the two Mexico games mentioned, if you can find a game since September of 2004 (nearly a year and a half . . . around 30 games . . . during which we qualified and won our continental championship) when Donovan and Reyna were on the field together, please let me know.

Even if you can add one or two games to the two that they actually played . . . . that is still less than 15% of the time that Both Donovan and Reyna have played together.

Apparently, you follow the USMNT but don't realize that I'm correct. What of the opposition?