Is the MLS pre-season an excuse for their failure in the CCC?

[MoRado]

I closed the Sap-LA and the LDA-NE threads cause both were used to discuss this topic.

Please use this thread to keep a FRIENDLY discussion of this issue.

[MoRado]

IMHO a don't like the "pre-season excuse", as i said before, if they really wanted to win the CCC they could have started their practice a couple of weeks earlier.

[Onionsack]

I dont think MLS fans are saying that if it was not in our pre-season that MLS teams would win the CCC. They are saying, and i belive they have at least a decent arguement, that it is a major factor in their lackluster performances over the last 4 seasons.

Its a legitimate disadvantage. Anyone who says otherwise just does not understand the game.

MLS fans just get fed up with other CONCACAf nation fans running around telling them how poor MLS teams are and how their clubs are just so superior based on the results in the CCC the last few seasons.

We are trying to play good teams more than a month from the start of our season...obviously we will not be playing near the upper levels of our form.

Just go to the CONCACAF site and look up all the results before and after 2001.

[Onionsack]

IMHO a don't like the "pre-season excuse", as i said before, if they really wanted to win the CCC they could have started their practice a couple of weeks earlier.


Practices don't build match fitness and match form. Players need competitive full speed games under real match conditions to do that. MLS teams lack those when they the CCC starts in February

[rjxsapri]

Hmm, well, MLS teams might be in their pre-season, but I think Saprissa has been in an even worse condition, playing two games a week every week, and even giving a bunch of players to the Costa Rican Ntl so they could fly for 40 hours to get to Iran to lose that stupid match.

Anyways, I don't think it's a good excuse. Instead of giving that excuse, MLS should start looking for ways to adjust it's season with the rest of the world. The only problem is...why make the football season so long if barely anybody in the US cares about football? Believe me, I'm sure that if the MLS season were to conflict in time with the American Rugby, Baseball, or Basketball seasons, even football fans would lose interest in MLS (well, many of them would).

[dmike]

IMHO a don't like the "pre-season excuse", as i said before, if they really wanted to win the CCC they could have started their practice a couple of weeks earlier.


Morado you make it sound so easy.

These legs vs Saprissa convinced me without a doubt a healthy & mid season Galaxy would of easily handled Saprissa.

[ManUSA]

I dont think you can get up to as high a level of fitness by starting practice earlier. The MLS teams will always be at a disadvantage to the other teams whose leagues have started and have got into the swing of things. The MLS teams will struggle for stamina. Evidence of this is the way both MLS teams lost the games at the end. Alajuelense scored just before the final whistle and Saprissa scored 2 second half goals before winning in overtime. The MLS players just couldnt keep playing at the capacity they could at the start.

[Qdog]

Of course it's an excuse; rather it's a good one or not is something else.

I think if MLS is going to participate in this cup they need to take it serious. The league either needs to push for a change in the time of year the cup is being contested or make sure their entries are involved in some sort of competition prior to the start of the Cup. Right now it looks like the league just checks off the tournament by showing up for a couple games.

[Crazy_Yank]

MLS teams have beaten several premier league teams while said teams were doing a US pre-season tour. MLS actually has a very good record against premiership preseason teams. Does anyone think MLS teams would beat an inseason premiership team? Maybe Sunderland, but probably not anyone else. The US has a better national team than Costa Rica, and an US domestic based national team would probably beat an domestic based Costa Rican side 7 out of 10 games. That said I still believe the top 2 Costa Rican pro teams are better than MLS sides. However MLS believes in parity to the extreme so every team has a title shot each season. That isn't the same in Costa Rica. Even ChivasUSA could potentially win the title this year after only winning 4 matches last season. I would like MLS to switch to fall-spring season, with a winter break in order to propely compete in the club championships.

[CheveLoco]

didn't Morelia in preseason beat some team from MLS 6-1?

Preseason it's just an excuse of many i have heard from MLS fans....now they say they dont do good cuz the team was in preseason and the rest were in season already...if they were in season they would say that their teams are tired cuz of the heavy load of playing mid week...

there's no right time to them..

[SwissGCZ]

MLS teams have beaten several premier league teams while said teams were doing a US pre-season tour. MLS actually has a very good record against premiership preseason teams. Does anyone think MLS teams would beat an inseason premiership team? Maybe Sunderland, but probably not anyone else.
The difference is that those are friendlies and not competitive matches, so it is a very poor comparison in my opinion. The premier league teams would approach those games differently if they actually mattered, pre-season or not. I really don't see why people keep making this comparison to shed a more positive light on the CCC defeats. Friendlies mean next to nothing and have no place in a discussion about competitive matches, especially at the club level.

Anyway, I voted NO. The timing is certainly not ideal for MLS, but it doesn't excuse six years of non-performance. CSKA Moscow won the UEFA Cup in pre/early-season last year, and Basel just beat AS Monaco despite having a much longer winter break than Ligue 1. MLS fans like to forget it, but other leagues face similar challenges.

It can be done and has been done...

[yankiboy]

I think if MLS is going to participate in this cup they need to take it serious. The league either needs to push for a change in the time of year the cup is being contested or make sure their entries are involved in some sort of competition prior to the start of the Cup. Right now it looks like the league just checks off the tournament by showing up for a couple games.

Exactly. If you're going to compete then commit to preparing. If not, then don't bother go through the motions. Either it is a priority or it isn't.

Like SwissGCZ, I also voted "NO". I'm not big on excuses.
Mid season, pre-season, post season. The result is the result. If our league is going to compete then compete. Otherwise it is a waste of time and resources.

[tomwilhelm]

Exactly. If you're going to compete then commit to preparing. If not, then don't bother go through the motions. Either it is a priority or it isn't.

Like SwissGCZ, I also voted "NO". I'm not big on excuses.
Mid season, pre-season, post season. The result is the result. If our league is going to compete then compete. Otherwise it is a waste of time and resources.
On the contrary, it's a great warm-up for the MLS season, which is exactly how the coaches involved are treating it. What else can they do? You have to have a MUCH better team to win a home-away series against a team in mid-season form during your preseason. MLS teams don't, so they use the CCC for what they can... preparation.

Until you move it out of our preseason, we're going to continue to treat the CCC as an advanced training scrimmage.

[yankiboy]

On the contrary, it's a great warm-up for the MLS season, which is exactly how the coaches involved are treating it. What else can they do?

MLS teams don't, so they use the CCC for what they can... preparation.

Until you move it out of our preseason, we're going to continue to treat the CCC as an advanced training scrimmage.

We can just agree to disagree Bro. From where I'm sitting, it is a waste of resources. Pretty expense scrimmage. I would imagine that Carolina Challenge Cup that the USL Charleston Battery hosts is a hell of a lot cheaper than flying a delegation and lodging them in San Jose, CR. I could be wrong about that but I seriously doubt it. Not to mention what it possible expenses to host the home leg.

Admittedly, it's not my ca$h and I struggled in my college economics and accounting courses. :)

[Horizon]

[QUOTE=Crazy_Yank] The US has a better national team than Costa Rica, and an US domestic based national team would probably beat an domestic based Costa Rican side 7 out of 10 games. QUOTE]

7 out of 10 if we play in the US only. We havent won in Saprissa Stadium in a long time. If we play in Costa Rica, most likely we lose.

[yankiboy]

Good post Horizon.

Not trying to "pile on". I meant to mention something about Crazy's post but I forgot.

Costa Rica's National team side is pretty much domestically based. The league is that good. For foreign clubs playing down there in that stadium--it's incredibly difficult. Let's just say that there is a reason that it is considered one of the most intimidating stadiums in the CONCACAF region to play for visitors, especially if you are forgieners. It's legenday for being an intimidating place to play.

Which is what makes the Galaxy performance this time around all the more disappointing. They had a real shot at getting it done and came up short. I'm not dogging LA. I'm just saying that the goal was attainable. Especially after the Galaxy home leg and the team that Medford used to start that game. And the way that they started the game down there.
It was an opportunity lost.

I don't wany anyone to think that I'm putting down the Galaxy. That's not the case. DCU did the same type thing in the Sudamericana against Catolica last year and since it is my club, I was much, much more vocal about that disappointment.

[voros]

Exactly. If you're going to compete then commit to preparing. If not, then don't bother go through the motions. Either it is a priority or it isn't.
The problem is the correct answer is that _it isn't_ any kind of priority for MLS teams.

It's clear there's more to this than just the pre-season nature of the matches. But that doesn't mean the timing of the tournament is any less of a disadvantage. New England couldn't even be bothered to open up their stadium for a home leg, and even if they did the conditions would have been miserable.

Is it the only reason? No. Is it a valid reason? Yes.

[yankiboy]

If the tournament is mid MLS season, voros, I'm not convinced that the result would be any different. That is my honest opinion.

If it is during the season, then some (not "all"--MLS haterz) people are going to say "their legs were tired, too many commitments--it was asking too much.

There are always going to be factors, mitigating circumstances. At the end of the day, the main thing is the result.

I pretty much think that we are saying the same thing. I'm clarifying more for those who are making the timing the main basis of their argument on why our MLS clubs don't do better. I hate to agree with one of the haterz but seriously--what time is going to be a "good" time?

To be able to put yourself out as a regionally elite performer, then you need to demonstrate an elite performance. I don't care what the MLS haterz say. I'm talking about the perspective from an MLS supporter.

Sure there are factors. But let's set the bar high...Or let's not bother to compete. It's one thing to lose. It's another thing to go into a tournament ill prepared. it seems to me like that was a factor in both of the clubs not playing better.

Like Morado said, a couple weeks more of training may have made a big difference. If it was a priority then the clubs could have started training early. It wouldn't have guaranteed success but it sure as hell couldn't have hurt and there would be less doubt on behalf of those who think that a lack of commitment played a roll in what was already going to be an uphill (but clearly not impossible) battle.

[tomwilhelm]

If the tournament is mid MLS season, voros, I'm not convinced that the result would be any different. That is my honest opinion.

If it is during the season, then some (not "all"--MLS haterz) people are going to say "their legs were tired, too many commitments--it was asking too much.

There are always going to be factors, mitigating circumstances. At the end of the day, the main thing is the result.

I pretty much think that we are saying the same thing. I'm clarifying more for those who are making the timing the main basis of their argument on why our MLS clubs don't do better. I hate to agree with one of the haterz but seriously--what time is going to be a "good" time?

To be able to put yourself out as a regionally elite performer, then you need to demonstrate an elite performance. I don't care what the MLS haterz say. I'm talking about the perspective from an MLS supporter.

Sure there are factors. But let's set the bar high...Or let's not bother to compete. It's one thing to lose. It's another thing to go into a tournament ill prepared. it seems to me like that was a factor in both of the clubs not playing better.

Like Morado said, a couple weeks more of training may have made a big difference. If it was a priority then the clubs could have started training early. It wouldn't have guaranteed success but it sure as hell couldn't have hurt and there would be less doubt on behalf of those who think that a lack of commitment played a roll in what was already going to be an uphill (but clearly not impossible) battle.
I completely disagree. What color is the sky in your world?

I'll take the "tired legged" in-form mid-season team over the same exact team in "fresh" pre-season form every single time. Training early is not adequate. Training form is not match form.

Look, either you make the CCC worthwhile for an MLS coach to try to win or they will treat it like the preseason warmup it is. Right now, there's no money, no prestige, and little chance to win for these squads, which are still full of guys that aren't even going to see the start of the season.

Frankly, I'm ok with the current situation. Some MLS teams get a couple of preseason warmup matches, while the other teams get to advance to the next round in a tournament that is designed around their schedule and means something to them.

[yankiboy]

What color is the sky in your world?
Blue. Usually. Unless it's night time. Unless it is cloudly or rainy or sunset or sundown. Is it different in New England?
I completely disagree.
I'll take the "tired legged" in-form mid-season team over the same exact team in "fresh" pre-season form every single time.
Ok. Bro, we disagree. Completely. And that's what makes this all so much fun...