Is Klinsmann set up for a huge failure?

[chelodelgado]

It hasn't been a good couple of week for german football. Three big losses in Italy from German NT, Bayern and Werder respectively, where NT and Bayern didn't even show up and merely went through the motion. It was this kind of disspirirted and disinterested performances that characterized the poor NT from 98 and up.

Player-wise, many good players Klinsmann relied on are having awful years, youngsters like Podolski, Schweinsteiger and Mertersacker are having very poor years. Combined that with serious questions in Deisler, Kahn/Lehmann, Klose, and Huth, it looks like they can only fill out half a team.

What can Klinsmann do to turn things around and to get the morale up? what's behind the serious shortage of football talents in Germany? And will Germany ever get back to being the football superpower it was in the 70's,80's and 90's?

[Dead Fingers]

see also
http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=321717

[penubly]

What I want to happen this summer, and what I expect are two dramatically different things!:)

I would love to see the team gel, and get on a streak as they did in 2002.

I don't expect it to happen, though.

There are too many players who have experienced a downturn since 2002, and not enough who have stepped up and progressed. Honestly, except for Ballack, which of the core players from the 2002 squad has improved? Metzelder has been hurt, Frings has been inconsistent, Hamann is nowhere to be seen. I don't think we can count on Kahn to reproduce the form he was on in Japan/Korea.

I honestly don't see Huth playing to the level we need.

I don't see a striker that will scare any of the defenses we will be seeing.

Given their group, they should be able to advance pretty easily. I'm not sure about anything else.

After France '98 and Euro '00 however, there was no reason to expect anything in Japan, so maybe we can look find a silver lining!

That being said, I will be watching them foremost, and hoping that they have an exceptional tournament.

[ForeverRed]

I do expect Germany to underperform this summer but that isn't Klinsmans fault entirely...while he is stubborn in player selection and not 100% there as a coach he is dealing with a difficult transition period for German NT football.

The youngsters are having a bad season and we should have known long ago that we can't really depend on them to lead the team at this stage, they're simply not ready yet.

Will Germany ever get back to their 70's, 80's & 90's glory? Maybe but it ain't happening anytime soon and on the road to that possible glory, the NT will go through some problematic situations and coaches like Klinsman who are only helping in pushing the carriage up that peak.

[mookhead]

http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/06/en/060310/1/69lj.html

Something for German Fans to think about till the world cup. According to this article, I would not worry about friendly performences before the World Cup.

[chelodelgado]

You couldn't really expect Klinsmann to turn thing completely around, but initially I was really pleased by the apparent change of attitude from the players. He brought in a lot of kids and they really re-energized the squad and that gave me hope. But now things have come back down to reality, Germany doesn't have the talents period. And as it stands now, the offense will rely on Ballack, Podolski, Klose, Schweinie and Deisler. Ballack is the only sure thing, Podolski has been awful, Klose has never excelled against top opponents (I suspect he never will), Schweinie looked to have peaked, and Deisler.. well let's not even waste our time. Without the youngsters stepping up, this squad is going to be very, very average. Germany will get to the round of 8 and get knocked out by a serious contender.

[Gregoriak]

http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/06/en/060310/1/69lj.html

Something for German Fans to think about till the world cup. According to this article, I would not worry about friendly performences before the World Cup.

Thanks for the link.

I recently checked 1970 newspapers sport section and all of the four preparation games Germany played before the Mexico World Cup were disastrous. The team didn't function, the midfield played atrociously without concept, Müller didn't score a single goal. The media was very pessimistic about Germany's chances at that World Cup, in fact they seriously thought if it wouldn't be a better idea to not participate deliberately as Germany would be spared the embarrassment that would certainly await the team if they played like that in the World Cup. And the first game they played in fact continued that series of crap performances, the terrible 2-1 defeat of Morocco. But after that, Germany suddenly got its act together and played arguably its greatest ever tournament, even if they "only" finished third.

Four years later on home soil, 1974, Germany shook off the unconvincing form of their preparatory matches against Spain (0-1) and Italy (1-1) to win their first three group games against Scotland (2-1), Hungary (5-0) and Sweden (2-0).

That's a severe error - the wins against Scotland, Hungary and Sweden were not part of the World Cup, they were friendlies as well!

[F96]

He's a believer:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/Hannoi/39b96616.jpg

:D


Didn't know where to put it.

[Bayerntone]

http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/06/en/060310/1/69lj.html

Something for German Fans to think about till the world cup. According to this article, I would not worry about friendly performences before the World Cup.

The article may provide a bit of solace to the string of poor records in friendlies. However, when the results of the friendlies are compounded together with the results of top Bundesliga teams in uefa competitions, the situation is sheer frightening.

[chelodelgado]

While playing on home turf is an advantage, it also brings a lot more pressure to perform that they didn't have in 2002. I don't see this team without a clear leader capable of coping with the pressure. Also can anyone tell me where did all the football talents went? Are German boys playing Playstation rather than football?

[Bayerntone]

Where have they gone?!

Matthaeus, Vogts, Andy Moeller, Rummenigge, Allofs, Voeller, Bierhof, Kilinsi,
Littbarski, the Mueller(s); Fischer, Breitner, Brehme, Bonhof, Berthold, Augenthaler, Kohler, Kirsten, Sammer, Effenberg, Schuster, Thon, Stielike, Netzer, Hoeness, Overaft, Schwarzenbeck, Beckenbauer ...

They disappear, like the extinction of dinosaurs, leaving just traces of fossils, no handing-down, no inheritance of their greatness ... what has happened?

Will Germany be a replica of Uruguay?

[Wotan]

Agreed! Great German players. Now, Asasmoah, Owomoyela----What can be done/ They ARE there- the talent must be developed!

But, honestly, I still think they'll do well this summer. Never sell Germany short AND--esp. playing at home. That's a 1 to 2 goal plus every game. The "2-2-4" Soccer magazine has Germany-England in Final. I would not be surprised.:)

[arthur d]

Agreed! Great German players. Now, Asasmoah, Owomoyela----What can be done/ They ARE there- the talent must be developed!

But, honestly, I still think they'll do well this summer. Never sell Germany short AND--esp. playing at home. That's a 1 to 2 goal plus every game. The "2-2-4" Soccer magazine has Germany-England in Final. I would not be surprised.:)

Ooh, some more bashing of black players. What a new idea from you, Wotan. Zest, brilliance, humour, as ever.

2-2-4 is a funny name for a football magazine, mind.

[Wotan]

Sorry , I meant 4-4-2 as the magazine title.(Was watching a college basketball game, a little typo, sorry)---:) Asamoah & Omo are Black? Huh--:confused: -i thought they were German!:rolleyes:

[arthur d]

Sorry , I meant 4-4-2 as the magazine title.(Was watching a college basketball game, a little typo, sorry)---:) Asamoah & Omo are Black? Huh--:confused: -i thought they were German!:rolleyes:

That's not a contradiction, you know. Are you implying that black people can't be German? Could you elaborate on this?

I am just pointing out that the players you single out for criticism happen to be the only black players in the German squad. Of course, this is a complete coincidence. Right?

[Bayerntone]

Is this way way off the topic for discussion?

I think Germany NT, like any other countries in the world, is looking for talents, and talents to represent Germany only, as simple but as difficult as that.

[penubly]

Agreed! Great German players. Now, Asasmoah, Owomoyela----What can be done/ They ARE there- the talent must be developed!


I am just pointing out that the players you single out for criticism happen to be the only black players in the German squad. Of course, this is a complete coincidence. Right?

Come see the violence inherent in the system!

Couldn't resist.

[Snakeater]

It hasn't been a good couple of week for german football. Three big losses in Italy from German NT, Bayern and Werder respectively, where NT and Bayern didn't even show up and merely went through the motion. It was this kind of disspirirted and disinterested performances that characterized the poor NT from 98 and up.

Player-wise, many good players Klinsmann relied on are having awful years, youngsters like Podolski, Schweinsteiger and Mertersacker are having very poor years. Combined that with serious questions in Deisler, Kahn/Lehmann, Klose, and Huth, it looks like they can only fill out half a team.

What can Klinsmann do to turn things around and to get the morale up? what's behind the serious shortage of football talents in Germany? And will Germany ever get back to being the football superpower it was in the 70's,80's and 90's?


To answer your question, I'd say "Yes." Chelodelgado, you hit the nail on the head with your comments on the lack of talent. I'm annoyed by all the criticism Klinsmann has received from both fans and officials. It's not like he's been given loads of talent with which to work. I doubt very much that the Kaiser or even Hitzfeld could get more out of his players than Klinsmann does.

Also, I'd like to rant on about Klinsmann's decision to live in California. What the fcuk is wrong with that? Why the beef? Recent inventions such as the internet, satelite TV, satelite radio, email, fax machines, and not so recent inventions like the telephone mean that by the click of a button we can access German newspapers from anywhere in the world; it takes seconds to dial a number, and information can be exchanged via email in seconds. If Klinsmann lived deep in the forest of a mountainous region in Papua New Guinea with the monkeys and wild boar, why should it matter if he has the proper means of communication at his disposal?

The only advantage of living in Germany is that it takes less time for him to meet with colleagues. Next question: How often is he supposed to convene meetings and attend seminars? I doubt it's that often. At the most, it wouldn't be more than once a week or once every two weeks. So what's the beef?

In fact, I applaud his decision to live outside Germany. There's no need to be in the media spotlight, being asked the same questions over and over, and having to provide the same answer over and over. That would grade on anyone. He can read about the criticism online in both English and German. (He speaks both languages) Someone in Klinsmann's shoes needs, from time to time, to be able to take a step back and view from a distance the task at hand and the obstacles he faces. This can only be done outside Germany.

If Klinsi gets Germany to the quarters, he will have done what was expected of him. If Germany reach the semis, his work must be applauded. If Germany reach the finals, he should be knighted or the German equivalent. And, if, by chance, Germany win the World Cup, well then give that man a new car! His very own VW. Make him ambassador to somewhere because he'll have earned it.

Lastly, can someone tell Beckenbauer to shut the hell up, one week the headlines read, "Beckenbauer praises Klinsmann," the next week they read, "Beckenbauer slams Klinsmann." I'm beginning to think that Beckenbauer suffers from the Charlton Heston syndrome, he's been so important to so many organizations for such a long time that he has an exaggerated sense of self-importance.

The snake has slithered. :cool:

[ForeverRed]

What about the mandatory coach meeting Klinsman missed about a week ago? This is an important tournament, Germany is hosting and the NT along with their coach have A LOT of work to do...this isn't some childs play where you can conduct business in a damn chatroom or a video conference...that is just unacceptable.


He took the damn job, he should have known what to expect.

[scorpio81]

What about the mandatory coach meeting Klinsman missed about a week ago? This is an important tournament, Germany is hosting and the NT along with their coach have A LOT of work to do...this isn't some childs play where you can conduct business in a damn chatroom or a video conference...that is just unacceptable.


He took the damn job, he should have known what to expect.


explanation (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=361490&cc=5901)