Fourth Official Important at all Levels

[CCSC_STRIKER20]

I looked through the other fourth official thread on this forum, but I think the most important thing to realize is that a fourth official is needed at all levels. At the lower levels their job should be as more of a control figure, and as they get higher to perform the more complicated jobs or whatever they do.

After reffing at tournaments where there are people smoking next to the fields and out of control coaches, I think there should be more 4th officials. Mind you these events happened at U11,U12, and U13 games. Of course this tournament had "stewards" that rode around in their golf carts...oh wait actually they just sat at the field their kids were playing at.

[Ref Flunkie]

I looked through the other fourth official thread on this forum, but I think the most important thing to realize is that a fourth official is needed at all levels. At the lower levels their job should be as more of a control figure, and as they get higher to perform the more complicated jobs or whatever they do.

After reffing at tournaments where there are people smoking next to the fields and out of control coaches, I think there should be more 4th officials. Mind you these events happened at U11,U12, and U13 games. Of course this tournament had "stewards" that rode around in their golf carts...oh wait actually they just sat at the field their kids were playing at.

I tend to disagree and do not think 4th officials are needed in most youth matches. The referee team should be able to control any coaches that get out of hand with simple warning, ejections. I would also hardly call it the referee's job to monitor smoking patterns (remind me again why this would not be allowed?) It is a miracle if we get 3 officials in the youth matches sometimes, throwing a fourth in would do nothing and the referees just need to learn to do their jobs IMO.

[MassachusettsRef]

(remind me again why this would not be allowed?) Per USSF's 7+7, using tobacco products on the touchline is a cautionable offence.

That being said, I agree with you; there's simply not enough money to pay for 4 officials on most matches.

[AlsoRan]

I would also hardly call it the referee's job to monitor smoking patterns (remind me again why this would not be allowed?)

Here in California both AYSO and California Youth Soccer Associaton do not allow smoking near youth soccer matches.

[Statesman]

If the referee cannot control youth sidelines then he needs more instruction, not a fourth official. What makes you think a fourth official at this level would be any better? Problem coaches at that level will scream and yell at the CR regardless of the 4th being there until they are dismissed. They just don't have the experience (or common sense apparently) to not put themselves in that predicament.

[blind_clown]

4th officials are also a waste at the youth level because most won't do the full job properly, although training might be part of it.

[USSF REF]

You're not asking for a 4th official. You're asking for an unbiased, field monitor. That meaning, the cop or field marshal who can monitor for aggressive and unacceptable behavior (smoking in some venues).

The 4th officials duties have very little concern with anything other than the benches, and to have them monitor everything around the field, is not only impossible but would take away the 4ths ability to do their actually assigned tasks.

[njref]

In NJ refs are almost always solo, we dreamed that one day we would have ARs for the upper level matches, but even in our dreams we never saw 4ths...

[Wreave]

I agree that field marshalls are the solution to the stated problem. If they're not doing the job, fix that problem. If it's easier to find 4th officials than competent field monitors, you must have a glut of referees.

Not only would it be nice to just have a full crew of three, I'd settle at this point for knowing, on Friday morning, that all the games for Saturday are covered. For tomorrow's 34 games, we have two games with no centers. That's actually a huge improvement over last week. Five games have one AR, another five have two ARs, the rest look like they're going to be solo. 4ths would be a dream...

[CCSC_STRIKER20]

I agree that field marshalls are the solution to the stated problem. If they're not doing the job, fix that problem. If it's easier to find 4th officials than competent field monitors, you must have a glut of referees.
.
Every tournament I have been too has field monitors or marshals and as I have said before, they pretty much never do their jobs. About smoking by the fields...they don't allow it wherever I have reffed...its not healthy.

[nonya]

not your job to caution a non rostered participant for smoking. I officiated with a crew and one guy ALWAYS smoked in between matches at tournaments when we were away from the field. I dont smoke, but I think the entire smoking thing is getting nuts. If you are outside on a public ground watching a game, no one should stop you from trying to kill yourself by smoking.

[USSF REF]

not your job to caution a non rostered participant for smoking. I officiated with a crew and one guy ALWAYS smoked in between matches at tournaments when we were away from the field. I dont smoke, but I think the entire smoking thing is getting nuts. If you are outside on a public ground watching a game, no one should stop you from trying to kill yourself by smoking.

I totally agree that the anti-smoking persecution of people is a bit rediculous.

That said, I've heard the counter argument to this and it goes -- It's a kids sporting event and being in their vacinity...
a. is a bad role model
b. can give by standers second hand smoke
c. there should be no smoking at youth events.

Fankly, I say if people go away from the field, so what?

[Chas (Psyatika)]

Per USSF's 7+7, using tobacco products on the touchline is a cautionable offence.

That being said, I agree with you; there's simply not enough money to pay for 4 officials on most matches.I can't find that in there. I've definitely seen reference made to tobacco in AYSO documents. I think i vaguely remember reading something in USSF documentation as well, but i can't find it. EDIT: I just checked, and found mention in the college rules, but still no USSF texts.

Anyway, if it is in the documentation, why are we arguing about it?

[Ref Flunkie]

I can't find that in there. I've definitely seen reference made to tobacco in AYSO documents. I think i vaguely remember reading something in USSF documentation as well, but i can't find it. EDIT: I just checked, and found mention in the college rules, but still no USSF texts.

Anyway, if it is in the documentation, why are we arguing about it?


I do not think the USSF documentation is in reference to spectators, just coaches/players. I'm with USSF REF here, the anti-smoking thing is a bit nuts, especially in an open air environment. Eventually, we will lock our kids up in the house for fear of all the bad things they could be exposed to in the "big bad world".

[blind_clown]

I totally agree that the anti-smoking persecution of people is a bit rediculous.

That said, I've heard the counter argument to this and it goes -- It's a kids sporting event and being in their vacinity...
a. is a bad role model
b. can give by standers second hand smoke
c. there should be no smoking at youth events.

Fankly, I say if people go away from the field, so what?

Going away from the field is the key part. Not next to the touchline with everyone choking on it while they're trying to run.

[ref47]

atr 12.28.1, examples of ub ... uses tobacco or a cell (mobile) phone.

applies to players, etc.; only those persons under the refs authority.