promotion and relegation*

[MetroZebra]

For the MLS to truly be considered a competitive league it has had to make some changes. Getting rid of the shootout helped and making the clock run UP instead of down with extra time added on. What about promotion and relegation? All of the other top leagues have it and it makes the season more interesting. What if the worst team at the end of the season(fewest points) was sent down to the A-League, and the top A-League team was promoted to MLS level or top flite. I, as a fan, would love to see the different teams each season and how they compete. Also, I think it would make the players appreciate MLS more and make them want to stay there. We have affiliations with the A-League now for players, why not for promoting entire teams?
Remember the Open Cup final where the Rochester Raging Rhinos beat the Rapids? The announcers touched on the idea of Rochester coming to MLS based upon their fan base which was very supportive.
I think that MLS has to continue to evolve in order to be a successful league and this was just one idea of how to do it.

[mcontento]

*yawn*

[ojsgillt]

People, please don't lay into him too much, he is still somewhat new.


I like the idea of promotion and relegation. It is a fun novelty but it really wouldn't work the way you have pointed out. First off some A-league teams have a higher pay roll than MLS teams do, How do we tell an owner and GM from the A-league that he now has to give up some of his players to fit under the cap. Then we have to tell the owner that he no longer gets the profits from his own team, and if their is a loss of $$$ in the league that he is now responsible for that as well. Then we have to tell them that if he has more than 3 internationals that he has to cut the rest.

It is a great idea, and it would be awesome to see, but convincing the A-league owners to conform to the MLS standards would be almost impossible. on the other side of the coin, Why should MLS fund teams in the A-league. It would send one if its owned teams down to another league. That holds another problem Does it still get the same amount of money for salary and what not as the teams still in MLS? What about building the fan base for a city. Who wants to see a team that was once at the highest level but proved they couldn't hack it and got sent down to the minors to rebuild?

Once again it is a great idea. A wonderful novelty to the american sports landscape, but I wouldn't hold my breath for it happening. If it finally does, the league would have to be financially stable. I would much rather see A-league teams with a good fan base get an invatation to join the league at first

[Lucid]

Whoo hoooo!!!! Another pro/rel thread. I just can't get enough of these. :D

Pro/rel is gay, it has always been gay, and it will always be gay.

Contrary to what people think on here, the system of soccer in Europe is not perfect and in some facets of it, it isn't even the most desirable way to run it.

We have a chance to start from scratch, and improve on how soccer leagues are run. We aren't here to just emulate the rest of the world. Sure we'll screw up on some things, but we'll also improve on some other things. Clubs in Europe are going bankrupt quite often now because they pay players too much and it's turning into the economics of the way baseball is run over here. Pretty soon there's gonna be some drastic changes made over there and it's going to start looking more and more like the american sports landscape.

Sorry for the rant, flame away now. But hell... if we're gonna have another one of these threads, we need to at least make it interesting.

[jwinters]

What if the worst posters were sent back to SoccerAmerica Grafitti?

[Knave]

How about we relegate promotion/relegation threads to the FFA!

Within 10 to 15 years you'll begin to see promotion and relegation fade away in European soccer. There's too much money involved. Owners don't want to risk relegation. Sorry - but in this respect MLS is the way of the future.

Deal with it.

[MrSangster]

Thereby the Revolution would have to play a High School varisty schedule for this season:

2002- Varsity HS
2001 -NCAA Div. 3
2000- NCAA Div.2
1999-NCAA Div.1
1998-D3
1997-A-League
1996-MLS

They could maybe reach .500 . It might work!

[superdave]

Originally posted by Knave
Within 10 to 15 years you'll begin to see promotion and relegation fade away in European soccer.
Americans always are the ones who think that "because money talks and bs walks," that the continental superleague is coming, and pro/rel is going.

European fans who understand FAs and the fanbase are on the opposite side.

[Nepal Footy]

I think pro/rel could work within the MLS framework. That is to say once MLS has 20 or more teams divide it into 2 divisions.

Pro/rel with the A-league won't fly with the MLS investors and is not practical.

Many people often compare MLS to the J-League (Japan). The J-League started only a few years back and they have pro/rel. If they can do it, why can't MLS?

Sorry for taking this thread seriously. I just came back to the boards after a few years away :-)

[Defender]

There are a lot of traditions of soccer that can work in this country (ties for one thing), but promotion/relegation would not work. Sports culture in the US is much different than in Europe. The moment a team drops down to what they see as the AAA league, attention to that team from the fans and media would drop drastically.

There is also the question of the number of cities that could support a MLS team. Could there really be 30 different cities that could support an MLS team by itself? How serious would the media (ESPN) take MLS if the topflight teams were Charleston, Rochester and Charlotte, whereas the second flight teams were New York, Dallas and/or Denver? How serious would the media be about the big New Jersey MetroStars/Richmond Kickers game?

The flipside of that argument is that only the big cities would have the money/exposure to put together a first class team and organization, and that they'd stay up anyway. But some teams would have to drop.

The leagues future isn't secure yet, so let's not get into things that we can't even think about yet.

[SamPierron]

1. No A-league team has a higher player payroll than any MLS team. Bigger marketing budget? Maybe in a case or two.

2. Promotion could be okay, but it'd be difficult given the MLS system. Relegation would be a disaster.

[Sachin]

Originally posted by superdave

Americans always are the ones who think that "because money talks and bs walks," that the continental superleague is coming, and pro/rel is going.

European fans who understand FAs and the fanbase are on the opposite side.

The key word here is fans. Fans don't run the clubs. Bean-counters do. All it takes is for one super-club like Real Madrid or Man U to get relegated for the whole system to change.

Sachin

[Preston North End]

Originally posted by jwinters
What if the worst posters were sent back to SoccerAmerica Grafitti?

There are more clubs in the lower leagues due to inferior play. Only the select few play in the top division.

There are more posters on BigSoccer due to inferior knowledge. Only the select few dare post at SoccerAmerica Grafitti (before the morons at SA changed SAG and their magazine).

There is so much static on this board, it's really not believable.

[Mike T]

I truely believe Prom/Reltn could never work here... I even question how well it truely works elsewhere.

Trust me, all you need for a good league to funtion idealy is parity with each team, a' la the NFL. The second you place P/R you are really inviting desaster any way you look at it.

First, P/R works in somewhat in Europe because there are old traditional soccer enclaves that support teams whether they are in first or third division (and even then thats highly limited).

P/R also, promotes enequalty between teams as more traditional/power teams do everything they can includind to guarantee themselves a destructive relegation. ???When was the last time we saw a Real Madrid, Barcelona, Man U, Liverpool, Bayern .... , in danger of relegation. Sorry, but that kind of lack of parity within national leagues is suspicios and most certainly would not work in the US.

P/R is not a good system. Businesswise it makes little sense, face it. Could you imagine say NY/NJ and LA getting relegated for a Charleston Battery and Rochestor Rhinos. Come on!!! In Europe, this may occur somewhat with smaller clubs making it to first division... HOWEVER many of these smaller clubs actually still reside in or near a large metropolis such as London which has something like 8 clubs and even more with clubs within an hour or 2 distance.

P/R is simply not a good Idea... could you imagine yourself being an Investor/Operator and being told your investmet can be shot down to minor league status should you have one bad year !!! Who the hell would want to invest in such a deal. Simply proposterous.

[AndyMead]

Originally posted by superdave
European fans who understand FAs and the fanbase are on the opposite side.

European fans are in a state of denial.

[GoDC]

If this is the quickest way to get Rochester into MLS, then I am in favor of it 100%. Hell, they outdraw KC and SJ.

[SoFla Metro]

Reading this thread (again) is two minutes of my life I'll never get back.

[SoFla Metro]

Originally posted by GoDC
If this is the quickest way to get Rochester into MLS, then I am in favor of it 100%. Hell, they outdraw KC and SJ. If Rochester isn't in MLS, why even have an MLS?

[kenntomasch]

Why have we never had this discussion before now? This is really fresh and invigorating.

Originally posted by SoFla Metro
If Rochester isn't in MLS, why even have the MLS?

Fixed your post.

[superdave]

Originally posted by AndyMead
European fans are in a state of denial.
Or better informed.

It's one or the other.