Center Back Starts and Pairings (2004-2006)

[dcole]

Thought I’d take a look at the number of CB starts for our six candidates for CB, as well as the starting CB pairings from 2004-2006. I only looked at 2004-2006 for two reasons: (1) ussoccer.com only lists line-ups for those years and I didn’t feel like tracking down the 2002-2003 line-ups and (2) I don’t consider pre-2004 to be very meaningful anyway. If anyone wants to add the stats for the rest of the cycle, feel free. Please point out any mistakes you see. (Note- I think the Costa Rica game was a three-man back line of Dolo-Pope-Boca, but others seem to think it was a four-man back line with Convey on the left. If you’re of the latter mind, add another start for each of Boca and Pope and one to their total as a pair.) Here goes:

CB Starts in 4-man back line (2004-2006):

Pope- 16
Gooch- 10
Berhalter- 9
Boca- 9
Conrad- 8
Gibbs- 5

Starting CB Pairings (# of starts together):

Pope/Boca- 6
Gooch/Berhalter- 4
Pope/Conrad- 4
Pope/Gooch- 2
Pope/Berhalter- 2
Gooch/Conrad- 2
Pope/Gibbs- 1
Boca/Berhalter- 1
Gooch/Gibbs- 1
Berhalter/Gibbs-1
Gibbs/Boca- 1

Footnotes:

Pope- Started at CB twice as part of a 3-man back line (not included above). Only player to have been paired as a starter at CB with all five of the others.

Gooch- Started at LB once as part of a 3-man back line

Boca- 5 of his 7 CB starts came in 2004. He also started at LB in a four-man back line 5 times and once as part of a 3-man back line.

Gibbs- Started at LB in a four-man back line 4 times. During 2004-2006, didn't start at CB more than once with any of the other 5 contenders.

Conrad- Started at RB and CB once each as part of a three-man back line. Seven of eight starts came in Gold Cup and in 2006. During 2004-2006, didn't start at CB with Boca, Berhalter or Gibbs, nor did he start any games at CB where any of those three was available.

Boca/Gooch have never started at CB together (though they did play the second half of the recent Germany friendly together).

Gooch/Berhalter started both games against Mexico.

[Shackleton]

Interesting analysis. Can someone confirm whether these CBs are primarily right or left footed?

My best guess from memory:

Pope--Right
Gooch--Right
Berhalter--Left
Boca--Left
Conrad--Right
Gibbs--Left

[Nutmeg]

Without going back and looking at history, I'd say that this cycle the centerback pairing looks to be much more up in the air than the last cycle was. If healthy, didn't Pope and Agoos have the two spots locked down?

This group still seems very much up in the air. Based on pure ability at the top of their game, I'd believe the first-choice for Arena would be Gooch and Pope. But Arena really likes having a vocal guy back there, which is why I think Berhalter and Conrad have gotten such serious looks. Neither has the physical acumen of a healthy Pope and Gooch, but they are both better communicators. In Arena's zone marking system, that role is essential.

This is one area where I have no clue how it will eventually pan out, or whether we even have one preferred pairing that gets most of the minutes.

[MikeLastort2]

Without going back and looking at history, I'd say that this cycle the centerback pairing looks to be much more up in the air than the last cycle was. If healthy, didn't Pope and Agoos have the two spots locked down?

This group still seems very much up in the air. Based on pure ability at the top of their game, I'd believe the first-choice for Arena would be Gooch and Pope. But Arena really likes having a vocal guy back there, which is why I think Berhalter and Conrad have gotten such serious looks. Neither has the physical acumen of a healthy Pope and Gooch, but they are both better communicators. In Arena's zone marking system, that role is essential.

This is one area where I have no clue how it will eventually pan out, or whether we even have one preferred pairing that gets most of the minutes.

I've always been an Eddie Pope fan. However, one of the things that has bugged me consistently his entire career is his apparent inability to make himself heard. Used to drive me nuts in his DC United days, and continues to do so when he plays for the USMNT.

[CincoDmayo]

Gooch on the right, Gibbs on the left.

The way Bruce wants it.

[dcole]

Based on pure ability at the top of their game, I'd believe the first-choice for Arena would be Gooch and Pope. But Arena really likes having a vocal guy back there, which is why I think Berhalter and Conrad have gotten such serious looks. Neither has the physical acumen of a healthy Pope and Gooch, but they are both better communicators.

Interesting point about Conrad and Berhalter. I think they are both pretty good distributors as well.

Obviously, Gooch is a lock for the roster, and he seems close to a lock to start. Pope is a virtual lock for the roster, but will be given a chance to play his way off in the Germany friendly. Assuming those two guys are in, we're down to two pure CBs (Berhalter/Conrad), and two CB/LBs (Boca/Gibbs). Either two or three of these four guys will make the roster:

Scenario 1: Bruce brings only three wing backs.

In this scenario, five CBs will make the roster, meaning that at least one of Boca or Gibbs makes it by default. This automatically provides coverage at LB (in addition to the coverage provided by Convey). Based on his performance in the position, I can't see bringing Boca going as coverage at LB. I also can't see him playing on the left in a three-man back line. He has just looked awful in both of those positions. Thus, I'd give the nod to Gibbs if looking for coverage at LB. If this happens, then it's down to Boca, Berhalter and Conrad. In looking at those three, I would be looking to take the best CB, and wouldn't give Boca any "extra credit" for his time at LB. Purely as a CB, I'd take Berhalter and Conrad over Boca.

Scenario 2: Bruce brings four wingbacks.

In this scenario, both Boca and Gibbs are expendable because their ability to provide coverage at LB is no longer needed. All four of Berhalter, Conrad, Boca and Gibbs could be judged solely on their ability at CB, and only two would go. This scenario seems unlikely to me because having 5 CBs, one of whom can play LB, provides maximum flexibility. Keep in mind, though, that Mastro has started three games at CB in 2004-2006 and can provide coverage there in a pinch. Given this, Dunivant may be able to force his way onto the roster by getting over his injury quickly and throwing up a monster game in the Germany friendly.


If it were up to me, and based on what I've seen to date, I'd take Gooch, Pope, Berhalter, Conrad and Gibbs, and (as much as I like him) I'd leave Boca home.

[MikeLastort2]

Gooch on the right, Gibbs on the left.

The way Bruce wants it.
From the post that started this thread:

Starting CB Pairings (# of starts together):
Gooch/Gibbs- 1

Give it up. Seriously.

[Adam Zebrowski]

onyewu's recent form makes him a strong contender...

gibbs, getting healthy and returning to the sort of form displayed against RVN makes him very desireable...

pope's play against england and concern his age will be a factor in an extended role means arena's selection of pairing is yet to be determined...

arena will select the best two and go with them...

I don't believe past pairings will drive arena's choice...

he'll select the guys who can best get the job done...

and onyewu with gibbs is a possibility

[CincoDmayo]

From the post that started this thread:

Starting CB Pairings (# of starts together):
Gooch/Gibbs- 1

Give it up. Seriously.

Heh, they werent available when they couldve been together.

You need to give it a rest man, Bruce said if he had everyone healthy...yada yada yada.

But keep on thinking youre right, it makes such interesting banter as per usual.

[Slingerfan1977]

From the post that started this thread:

Starting CB Pairings (# of starts together):
Gooch/Gibbs- 1It should be noted that both Gibbs and Gooch have only been available for 2 matches since Gooch's first cap. Suspensions, injuries, and club responsibilities have kept the pairing from playing together.

So they've started together in 1 of 2 chances. Don't know if that means much but it's not like Arena has had both players and decided not to start them.

I've never seen the quote and I don't believe it was said, but if someone wants to search people claimed it was said sometime around the US - Guat qualifier last March

[Shackleton]

If anyone wants to add the stats for the rest of the cycle, feel free. Please point out any mistakes you see. (Note- I think the Costa Rica game was a three-man back line of Dolo-Pope-Boca, but others seem to think it was a four-man back line with Convey on the left. If you’re of the latter mind, add another start for each of Boca and Pope and one to their total as a pair.) Here goes:

CB Starts in 4-man back line (2004-2006):

Pope- 16
Gooch- 10
Berhalter- 9
Boca- 9
Conrad- 8
Gibbs- 5

Starting CB Pairings (# of starts together):

Pope/Boca- 6
Gooch/Berhalter- 4
Pope/Conrad- 4
Pope/Gooch- 2
Pope/Berhalter- 2
Gooch/Conrad- 2
Pope/Gibbs- 1
Boca/Berhalter- 1
Gooch/Gibbs- 1
Berhalter/Gibbs-1
Gibbs/Boca- 1


I came up with slightly different numbers for some combos:

Pope/Berhalter--1 (Panama on 10/13/04)
Pope/Gibbs--2 (TT on 2/9/05 & England on 5/28/05)
Boca/Berhalter--2 (Netherlands on 2/18/04 & Scotland on 11/12/05)

Perhaps I've misread the lineups?

[tbgh]

I think everyone is putting too much importance on who starts. Arena will play them like he did last time, different backs for different games. My own amateur guesses are . . .

Gooch and Gibbs for Czech. We need big physical imposing backs there. Pope might also be a contender for PT here but I think he's needed more for . . .

Gooch and Pope for Italy. With the talent Italy has at striker, international experience is going to be at a premium in this game and I expect this to be our most veteran lineup.

Bocanegro and Pope for Ghana. Our most used pairing against a team where we will most likely have to get points. Ghana doesn't have the premier forward for Gooch to mark and Gooch does need a rest at some point. I also expect him to get some PT here once we get a lead. Maybe sub Eddie Lewis out, move Boca over to wing and really bunker down.

In short, I expect at least four centerbacks to get serious playing time and the two who are outside looking in right now our Berhalter and Conrad.

[marmand]

Hey,

Does anyone still believes that Arena won' t go to Pope if he is physically fit?Berhalter is too slow, Boca is out of the picture. I really like Gibbs, but if Pope is in good form, he' ll start.

[UChicagoSoccer]

People are getting a little testy over this topic, but in a way it makes me glad. I guess we have enough solid competition to battle it out over who belongs. Keep it positive guys and for the stats, remember that the pairings are based by a large part to injury, availability and card accumulation.

[marmand]

[QUOTE=UChicagoSoccer]People are getting a little testy over this topic, but in a way it makes me glad. I guess we have enough solid competition to battle it out over who belongs. Keep it positive guys and for the stats, remember that the pairings are based by a large part to injury, availability and card accumulation.[/QUOTE

I think we have the deepest squad ever. To be honest, this is the hottest topic around here. Assuming everyone is fit and in good form. We already know who our starters are in midfield

Reyna
Mastro
Beasley
Donovan ( I am tempted to move him up front & start dempsey)

Our strikers are wolff (EJ will start if healthy...I just don' t think he will be healthy) & Mcbride

Keller is the goalie. Dolo & Lewis are your outside backs.

Who are your centerbacks?

Gooch and ?????

[UChicagoSoccer]

I think we have the deepest squad ever. To be honest, this is the hottest topic around here. Assuming everyone is fit and in good form. We already know who our starters are in midfield

Reyna
Mastro
Beasley
Donovan ( I am tempted to move him up front & start dempsey)

Our strikers are wolff (EJ will start if healthy...I just don' t think he will be healthy) & Mcbride

Keller is the goalie. Dolo & Lewis are your outside backs.

Who are your centerbacks?

Gooch and ?????

I disagree with forward and midfield combination and would assume many others would as well (at least one of the two). The only spots that are secure throughout BS are those of Donovan, Dolo, McBride, Reyna, Beasley (this'll be debated shortly if PT doesn't increase), Keller (unless he falls out a window), and maybe Lewis (though debate pops up every now and then especially with a rising Spector).

[MikeLastort2]

People are getting a little testy over this topic, but in a way it makes me glad. I guess we have enough solid competition to battle it out over who belongs. Keep it positive guys and for the stats, remember that the pairings are based by a large part to injury, availability and card accumulation.

Good point. I love the idea of people arguing about who should play which position. Means we're deep.

:)

[marmand]

here is my question to you. if everyone is fit and playing well. Who are your CB starters?

[MikeLastort2]

here is my question to you. if everyone is fit and playing well. Who are your CB starters?

Me?

Gooch and Pope. Provided that Eddie shows well in the first part of the MLS season.

[marmand]

I am thankful that Bruce names his roster in Late April. Playing in Salt Lake City's artificial turf is not going to help Eddie. Let's see what happens...