Exhausted excuse?

[kaisermohr]

http://msn.foxsports.com/soccer/story/5384876

Nick Weber's article points out the bucketload of games we've played and the number that could lie in wait. The overall theme of the article, I think, is fairly decent and pretty obvious; the backline is tired, the midfield is run ragged, the lack of finishing up front. I give him credit for the recognition of the tough schedule but I think he fails to recognize and credit how well the midfield and defense has played in spite of the arduous number of games.
Let's get real. It all comes down to the lack of finishing in front of goal. Even some of the mistakes the team has made on zonal set pieces, Sami's loss of a step, Xabi's loss of focus, Stevie's loss of touch once in while only cost the team a goal. A goal. Not two. Not three. All these would be forgiven if Crouch, Morientes et al. could put the ball in the net. Does anyone care if you give up a goal if you score two?
Outside of the strikers I'm proud of the way the team has played. I think most of us here realize the hardwork guys like Stevie and Momo have put in. I guess I'm just disappointed that an established journalist like Weber isn't giving the team it's just dues. I think any team in the premiership would love to play as well as Liverpool has with the kind of schedule they've faced.

...And one query. Does anybody question a man-marking system when a goal is let in on a corner?

[Kukilon]

http://msn.foxsports.com/soccer/story/5384876

Nick Weber's article points out the bucketload of games we've played and the number that could lie in wait. The overall theme of the article, I think, is fairly decent and pretty obvious; the backline is tired, the midfield is run ragged, the lack of finishing up front. I give him credit for the recognition of the tough schedule but I think he fails to recognize and credit how well the midfield and defense has played in spite of the arduous number of games.
Let's get real. It all comes down to the lack of finishing in front of goal. Even some of the mistakes the team has made on zonal set pieces, Sami's loss of a step, Xabi's loss of focus, Stevie's loss of touch once in while only cost the team a goal. A goal. Not two. Not three. All these would be forgiven if Crouch, Morientes et al. could put the ball in the net. Does anyone care if you give up a goal if you score two?
Outside of the strikers I'm proud of the way the team has played. I think most of us here realize the hardwork guys like Stevie and Momo have put in. I guess I'm just disappointed that an established journalist like Weber isn't giving the team it's just dues. I think any team in the premiership would love to play as well as Liverpool has with the kind of schedule they've faced.

...And one query. Does anybody question a man-marking system when a goal is let in on a corner?

The thing is that if it wasn't for the zonal marking other goals would be scored. It is also easier to fool a zonal defence since you can easily stick four attackers together and run into the same spot.

I would rather see them using man marking since it's simpler and especially when players start to get nervous in important matches.

[Red Bird]

... since you can easily stick four attackers together and run into the same spot.Since there's only ball to attack, they're likely to get into each other way.

I agree with kaisermohr that it's our strikers who've mostly let the team down. Zonal-marking copes it because it's alien to most most pundits, full stop.

[liverbird]

I don't think we've let in too many goals from set pieces -- I think we've not made enough off similar situations. I repeat get SG on the end of the set pieces not starting them -- let Xabi, Harry, Didi or JAR take 'em depending on the situation.

[Matt Clark]

Zonal marking is not the problem - we were using zonal marking when we went 12 games without conceding a goal, just as much as we were when we conceded soft goals on set-pieces.

Besides, we used zonal marking for years back in the 1980's.

The problem when we concede crap goals is always traceable - usually back to a player who fails to attack the ball when it enters his area of the defensive system. A lot of pundits have argued that zonal marking gives attackers an advantage because they're attacking the ball whereas the person defending is defending a patch of grass - this just shows the (often crass) lack of understanding that many professional pundits have for the subject they're paid to talk about. In a successfully implemented marking system, whether it be zonal or not, attacker and defender earn any advantage they have on each action they take or decision they make during each separate incident - the system they're playing in is neither here nor there.

As to whether we are tired, I don't doubt that there's some of that but clearly the main problem we've had is making the onion bag bulge. No point going much beyond that to see where we are and why. It's reasonable to argue that we could be something like four wins better off at this stage if we had had more bit up front. In reality, you would probably argue that it could be more than that.

An extra 12 points now would have made the season a very tasty one. To say nothing of the attendant benefits it would have delivered in Europe, where we now need to score twice in one game when we have failed to score once in the previous three games.

[stanaccrington]

Isn't amazing that its the system and the players that his focus is on, what about the pitch, its winter the passes don't go to feet every time, what about the fact we are playing teams the second time around, they know how we play our system and can try and exploite it, what about adding new players who need to adapt to the system, if they have come from clubs who don't play the same way we do. We have to look at all the factors and be happy that we are pushing very hard for 2nd place using a system that most journalists want to knock.
One of the reasons I take no notice of a guy who can't pronounce Birmingham.

[kaisermohr]

I don't think we've let in too many goals from set pieces -- I think we've not made enough off similar situations. I repeat get SG on the end of the set pieces not starting them -- let Xabi, Harry, Didi or JAR take 'em depending on the situation.

I hear ya. Stevie is strong player with some size. Get him in the box. I think Xabi and Harry provide better service off a dead ball anyway.

[King-James]

I seem to have come across articles about the fatigue for months now.
We must not forget how good we were last season at scoring! Considering the heavy schedule, I think we should be very happy with how this team has come together. Players like Gerrard still showing great efforts.
I don't see how the long term fatigue really played much part in the Charlton match. Where I will see it as a problem is in the CL, mostly.

[Twenty26Six]

The problem when we concede crap goals is always traceable - usually back to a player who fails to attack the ball when it enters his area of the defensive system. A lot of pundits have argued that zonal marking gives attackers an advantage because they're attacking the ball whereas the person defending is defending a patch of grass - this just shows the (often crass) lack of understanding that many professional pundits have for the subject they're paid to talk about. In a successfully implemented marking system, whether it be zonal or not, attacker and defender earn any advantage they have on each action they take or decision they make during each separate incident - the system they're playing in is neither here nor there.

A couple things...

Man-Marking is easier to implement/teach/coach but is not always consistent given the possible change in the line-up; Zonal Marking is harder to teach coach but offers the most consistency and also has the ability to establish a life of its own if established well and adhered to. Long term it is less coaching maintenance for a staff.

[B]Man marking is good at giving players constant and obvious motivation [you see your man, you mark your man]. It also provides everyone [at higher levels especially] with an immediate assessment of the situation. Who scored? Who was supposed to mark him? Why didn't he mark him? Easy to spot, easy to correct. What it does not provide is consistency of talent. Bad man markers, short players w/ a low vertical, slow players, unaware players can be exploited. Especially if the offensive team has a numerical advantage in players of aerial quality.

We have a squad rotation policy which changes our "defensive markers" from game-to-game. We need a system that is constant and universally applicable. You can't take the time at the professional level to coach each player individually [especially in a large squad w/ superior aspirations]. We also have a large number of players aerially capable, as well as large in stature and great in strength. This is why Zonal Marking makes sense for us.

Zonal Marking obviously has weaknesses. One being: the onset of complacency set off by lack of activity. If a less focused player is not chasing a man they can often be taken by surprise at players arriving out of their sight lines and are prone to slow reactions in general. "Frozen feet"; happens to the best of them. Players must remain mentally sharp and active in their visual surveillance. A second problem is that not all assessments are obvious and mistakes are not easily pinpointed [except through keen eye and/or game tape]. Goals and scoring chances are not often the result of only "one man's mistake" but rather a collective distribution of blame. Blame obviously placed at differing levels. Some players don't take any blame well or are incapable of differentiating a small grievance from the coach with a large beratement about their play. Also it can be easier to deflect blame in a game situation because mistakes are not always seen on the field and are left to be caught by an experienced and skilled coaching staff.

Not all of this is mutually exclusive to each set discipline. A lot more can be mentioned. I feel a have a reasonably superior grip of what is going on here given that I have to try and teach this at youth and adult levels. I don't claim to know it all and am always learning new things. But indeed the man who flames this post without thinking clearly shall meet my wrath!!! ...j/k. It's been a long morning. :o


ps. - My fingers are tired? Where's the rep, fellas? ;)

[655321]

I tried...someone back me up.

[LFCFanInCali]

I got your back.

[Twenty26Six]

You boys are too kind. Much appreciated! ;)

[usscouse]

One of the reasons I take no notice of a guy who can't pronounce Birmingham.You never been to Birminum..?

The guy is a dick, at least he cut his poneytail off. Before, he looked like dick with a poneytail.

His form of journalism is to say something stupid and wait for responces.

[LFCFanInCali]

You never been to Birminum..?


As I always try to explain, Birming-Ham is in Alabama, Birminum is in England.

[Twenty26Six]

The guy is a dick, at least he cut his poneytail off. Before, he looked like dick with a poneytail.

Ga-loor-ee-us. :D

[usscouse]

As I always try to explain, Birming-Ham is in Alabama, Birminum is in England.Naw, it's Birmingum! :cool:

We don't have to worry about too many games the rest of this season. There'll be even less games unless we score in the FA Cup.

Nice sig there Kold-one....:)

[Twenty26Six]

Article on Zonal Marking (http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/NG153461060913-1429.htm)

[liverbird]

Article on Zonal Marking (http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/NG153461060913-1429.htm)

I started a whole thread on it!

[Twenty26Six]

I started a whole thread on it!

I don't know what to say.... I'm so ferklempt.

[liverbird]

I don't know what to say.... I'm so ferklempt.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Twenty26Six again