Klinsmann and die Nationalmannschaft

[footyfan1]

@ Woerns: do you want a center back to move up field? Neither Huth or Mertesacker do that either. Woerns may not fit the young squad, but at the position he plays, why would you want him to do anything else? He defends and thats it

@ Podolski: funny you should make a Rooney comparison; Rooney first came out in Everton first year, everyone thought he was going to be the shit, like Podolski. Rooney, like Podolski, the next season disappointed greatly for Everton on a team that nearly got relegated. The next season, Rooney gets sold to Manchester United and his career takes off.

See a pattern? :D ;)


Great comments on both players!! I tried to rep you on it, but got this:

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to The Old Lady Hertha again.

[JeffS]

What part of Klinsmann lied to, betrayed and embarrassed Christian Woerns at the highest level do you not understand??

Stop right there man. There's the damned disconnect.

There's no "probably" in it......


And if it does, if you think I'm pissed off at Jurgen Klinsmann now, as they used to say in the old days, "You ain't seen nothin' yet!!" :mad:



I understand everything perfectly, there is no damned disconnect, and I mostly (98%) agree with you.

And you know what? I'm really f&cking sick of this discussion. It was fun yesterday. But I'm now completely tired of you jamming your hatred of Juergen Klinsmann down my throat. Just get the f%ck off it. Reasonable people can disagree, and we don't even disagree for the most part. But you just have to be right about it, don't you? And you just have to make sure I know how much you hate Klinsmann, don't you? And you seem to have a need to make me hate Klinsmann like you do. Sorry, but it's not gonna happen. I'm disappointed with Klinsmann in his tactics, player selections, his deplorable handling of Woerns, and mostly his recent results. But I don't hate him, nor will I ever. I have much better things to do with my emotional energy then hate a f#cking German who thinks he can run a soccer team in Germany from the beaches of Southern California. It ain't worth it. I'll save my emotional energy for the love of my wife and two daughters. Who gives a flying f%ck about Juergen f&cking Klinsmann and Christian f#cking Woerns? It was a lot of fun discussing Klinsmann/Woerns spat before, but we're well beyond that now. I even sportingly submitted to you being right and me being wrong, with minor caveats (trying to be diplomatic and see both sides). But you just have to keep hammering away. F#ck that. I just don't give a sh!t anymore.

From here on out, I'm only interested in discussing the German national team, BVB, the USA (of course), or other teams/players. Now that's interesting and fun.

[JeffS]

BTW - I probably shouldn't be so annoyed at this point, since I started arguing in the first place. I brought it on myself. But man, a fun discussion just got sour. Oh well. :rolleyes:

[footyfan1]

BTW - I probably shouldn't be so annoyed at this point, since I started arguing in the first place. I brought it on myself. But man, a fun discussion just got sour. Oh well. :rolleyes:


No skin off my nose man. We kept it rolling and I get to that point myself too.

No harm, no foul as far as I'm concerned. I rather enjoyed the discussion and I was getting a bit tired of repeating myself too.

We kept "hitting each other" with the same s#it when we should have stopped long ago.

I don't think we'll get to that point again.

Believe me, if we could "positive rep" each other at will, I would have positively repped you at least two more times during that thing..... :)

[JeffS]

No skin off my nose man. We kept it rolling and I get to that point myself too.

No harm, no foul as far as I'm concerned. I rather enjoyed the discussion and I was getting a bit tired of repeating myself too.

We kept "hitting each other" with the same s#it when we should have stopped long ago.

I don't think we'll get to that point again.

Believe me, if we could "positive rep" each other at will, I would have positively repped you at least two more times during that thing..... :)

Group hug, and all that neat stuff.

Yes, it went on too long and I'll freely admit I was a royal pain in the @ss.

My other tirade post was really cathartic.

:) :)

So, do you think Germany will make it out of the first round? If so, do they stand a snowball's chance in hell of winning anything in the second round?

As for the first round, they should be able to squeak by, by virtue of being in an easy group (Costa Rica, Poland, Ecuador). Then, if they get really lucky, they'll have a non-power opponent for the first game in the second round, and probably squeak by there. But as soon as they play one of the better teams (Brazil, Argentina, France, Italy, Holland, England, Czech Republic, Spain) they're likely to be embarassed.

Or maybe Klinsmann's "vision" will start to come together, and Huth and CMetz or Merte will be able to stop people, and Poldi and Klose will score, and Ballack won't have to carry the team on his shoulders, and maybe pigs will fly. Who knows????

[footyfan1]

Group hug, and all that neat stuff.

Cool!!


Yes, it went on too long and I'll freely admit I was a royal pain in the @ss.

Hey, it was both of us man. I know how I can get especially when I think someone isn't seeing where I'm coming from. You did see, but I couldn't tell that.


My other tirade post was really cathartic.

:) :)


Whatever "eases the pain" man! LOL!!


So, do you think Germany will make it out of the first round? If so, do they stand a snowball's chance in hell of winning anything in the second round?

As for the first round, they should be able to squeak by, by virtue of being in an easy group (Costa Rica, Poland, Ecuador). Then, if they get really lucky, they'll have a non-power opponent for the first game in the second round, and probably squeak by there. But as soon as they play one of the better teams (Brazil, Argentina, France, Italy, Holland, England, Czech Republic, Spain) they're likely to be embarassed.



We share the same opinion. Only I think I would have kept France off that list. I think they can beat France on German soil during THE tournament.



Or maybe Klinsmann's "vision" will start to come together, and Huth and CMetz or Merte will be able to stop people, and Poldi and Klose will score, and Ballack won't have to carry the team on his shoulders, and maybe pigs will fly. Who knows????

Stranger things have happened, but I don't think it will. I think Ottmar Hitzfeld is the one destined to lead the Germany team back to greatness, but he'll have to give an assist to the work Klinsmann has done.

[JeffS]

We share the same opinion. Only I think I would have kept France off that list. I think they can beat France on German soil during THE tournament.


France will be weaker without Zidane, but they still have Henry, Vierra, Thuram, Ismael, Trezuguet - still a strong side, and more talented than Germany. But yes, I'm sure Germany is capable of raising their game enough to beat one of their closest rivals on their own soil in the WC.


Stranger things have happened, but I don't think it will. I think Ottmar Hitzfeld is the one destined to lead the Germany team back to greatness, but he'll have to give an assist to the work Klinsmann has done.

One would think that if Klinsmann fails, or simply gets fed up, that Hitzfeld will be the first choice. And perhaps Hitzfeld will be ready.

[Dead Fingers]

You nerds. Keep up the good posting!

[Mehr]

Klinsmann needs to suck it up and admit this attacking 4-4-2 is not working at the moment....3-5-2 is the solution.

-------------------------------Kahn
------------------Mertesacker--Fahrenhorst-Metzelder
--------------------------Kehl----Borowski
Frings--------------------------------------------------Lahm
-----------------------------Ballack
---------------------Klose---------Podoslki

[LebenslangGruenWeiss]

Why should Klinsmann change tactics so drastically at this point? No, he has to continue what he's doing. At the WC we will have to play teams that will field very defensive formations. So having a sweeper an 2 defensive fullbacks is just not going to work out. especially the offside trap will not work at all. Bringing back Hamann and Nowotny?? Are you kidding me? And btw.: It's Fahrenhorst (not Farenhorst) and Friedrich (not Friederich).
Right now both Jansen and Schulz are in better shape than Lahm. Owomoyela had a great game against Juve and Frings is wasted as a right winger. Except for some nominations (Neuville, Asamoah) and letting Deisler play instead of Borowski and having the midfield spread out too much I fully support everything that Klinsmann does. And I really hope Lehmann gets to start over Kahn at the WC.

[JeffS]

You nerds.

I resemble that remark!

[JeffS]

Why should Klinsmann change tactics so drastically at this point? No, he has to continue what he's doing. At the WC we will have to play teams that will field very defensive formations. So having a sweeper an 2 defensive fullbacks is just not going to work out. especially the offside trap will not work at all. Bringing back Hamann and Nowotny?? Are you kidding me? And btw.: It's Fahrenhorst (not Farenhorst) and Friedrich (not Friederich).
Right now both Jansen and Schulz are in better shape than Lahm. Owomoyela had a great game against Juve and Frings is wasted as a right winger. Except for some nominations (Neuville, Asamoah) and letting Deisler play instead of Borowski and having the midfield spread out too much I fully support everything that Klinsmann does. And I really hope Lehmann gets to start over Kahn at the WC.

Great post.

Originally on this thread I was advocating a 3-5-2 with two defensive mids, mostly due to the major problems with the central defense. However, a few posts back from here, I changed my mind (just like a chick :rolleyes:). You are 100% correct - it would be completely idiotic to change tactics this late.

I do like Fahrenhorst a lot, and you make a good point about Schulz. He has impressed me in recent games.

As for Deisler, I'm not convinced he has the mental fortitude to be full time starter (which he isn't doing for Bayern). He's a great talent, no doubt, but I don't know if he's ready.

Friedrich is solid, I like his game, but he's not particularily fast, where as Owo is very fast, so he might fit in better with Klinsi's tactics.

I can't comment on Jansen, as I haven't seen him play. I'd love to hear a synopsis on him (anyone? :) )

Finally, I'll have to admit that Nowotny and Hamann would be bad at this point. They're both old and slow, and haven't really had great careers with the German Nats (except Hamann was exceptional at WC02). Klinsi needs the younger pacier guys.

[footyfan1]

Why should Klinsmann change tactics so drastically at this point? No, he has to continue what he's doing. At the WC we will have to play teams that will field very defensive formations. So having a sweeper an 2 defensive fullbacks is just not going to work out. especially the offside trap will not work at all. Bringing back Hamann and Nowotny?? Are you kidding me? And btw.: It's Fahrenhorst (not Farenhorst) and Friedrich (not Friederich).
Right now both Jansen and Schulz are in better shape than Lahm. Owomoyela had a great game against Juve and Frings is wasted as a right winger. Except for some nominations (Neuville, Asamoah) and letting Deisler play instead of Borowski and having the midfield spread out too much I fully support everything that Klinsmann does. And I really hope Lehmann gets to start over Kahn at the WC.


Wow. So you disagree, huh? ;)

Dude, we're going to have to have a bier in HD when I get there. O'Reilly's man!

[footyfan1]

You nerds.



I resemble that remark!



Me too!! ;)

[JeffS]

I love the Germany forum. We might get stubborn and pissy from time to time, but were all pretty friggin' friendly. We all share the same mentatlity in that we know Germany is a much weaker soccer nation than it used to be (like back in the day of "Soccer Made in Germany", or when some of us who spent time there, or the Germans themselves who post here), and we wish it would get back to what it was, and we argue over how it can get there.

[The Old Lady Hertha]

Yea this forum on the whole is a good forum, much easier to boss than even the China forum (which gets like 1/30th of Germany's traffic).

[Zeppelin]

Why is it that some of 2002 wc vet have been left out of the team ? i thought they are still quality players with full of experience.

[footyfan1]

Why is it that some of 2002 wc vet have been left out of the team ? i thought they are still quality players with full of experience.


I think all that are still capable are on the team.......

["Eisenfuß" Eilts]

Why is it that some of 2002 wc vet have been left out of the team ? i thought they are still quality players with full of experience.

Kahn, Frings, Klose, Metzelder, Schneider, Neuville and Asamoah are the players,
who played at the last WC (starting 11 or were substituted) and
will propably be in the squad for WC 2006.

Players, who played at the WC 2002 and still play,
but are not in the Klinsmann team, are:
Hamann, Woerns, Novotny, Linke, Jancker, Jeremies, Ramelow, Kehl,
Rehmer.

But in my opinion only Kehl and Hamann have a small chance to make it.
The other have lost too much of their strength or there are other reasons (Woerns).

[Zeppelin]

I think Cristian Ziege is still capable of making a miracle out of a freekick.