Argentina v. U.S. - pre-game (Mexico vs. Argentina R)

[puddleduck]

I'm curious what people are taking from last night's match to look for in Sunday's game.

I'll be looking to see how whoever gets tested in flank defense (especially Bobby Convey if he playes there) handles the Argies pressure offense. They succeeded in creating many, many dangerous turnovers in the last 1/3 of the field against Mexico.

Its the kind of tactic that makes you realize why it is so important that your fullbacks have good ball skills and the ability to make smart decisions about when to boot for safety and when to try and play it out of the back under pressure.

I think that's one of the reasons why Bruce values converted midfielders in these roles. (The other being their ability to contribute to the attack)

[FlashMan]

the (R) is in case anyone gives away the Mexico/Argentina score.

Well, I don't really see a thread like this around, so maybe I'll start one.

I watched most of the Argentina v. Mexico game last night. I had two thoughts constantly while watching the game:

1) Our domestic leagues can definitely hang with their domestic leaguers; and
2) They've got some guys with some serious - I mean, serious - foot skills. I guess that's no surprise. But our back line, and to a lesser degree our midfield, is going to have to concentrate on their tackling and positioning to keep the Argentinians at bay.

I'll take a stab at a lineup (though I haven't been paying attention to camp reports and/or any injury reports):

Howard

Garcia Pope Bocanegra Convey

Olsen Mastroeni Beasley

Donovan

Mathis Twellman

Of course Mathis and Donovan will switch around as the game flows.


I think guys like Victorine, Calif, Rimando, Cunningham and Klein will get their chance (or another chance, depending) as starters v. Jamaica. Of course this is pure speculation, and I have no idea what da Bruce is thinking.

[FlashMan]

Actually, replace Garcia with either Victorine or Mulrooney.

Garcia won't play right back. Maybe he'll get a start in Jamaica.

[BuffloSoldier]

Merged these two thread together.

[puddleduck]

Flashman, I agree on both counts.

I think this should be a good test for us. And a very winable game.

[wjarrettc]

Originally posted by puddleduck
I'm curious what people are taking from last night's match to look for in Sunday's game.


Here are some of my impressions...

1) We're going to need every bit of speed out of the likes of Beasley, Olsen and Donovan as Argentina was fast.

2) This was a very physical game for a "friendly". I counted seven yellow cards, and I personally think the ref missed a direct red for violent conduct late in the game when the Mexican player struck someone in the corner. We'll have to step up the intensity from the Canada match.

3) Argentina looked very dangerous down the left flank. They could have scored 2 or 3 more on some very dangerous crosses. Convey played on the opposite side against Canada so hopefully we'll have someone with more experience marking this danger. (Although it would be very interesting to see how Convey acquits himself in that position).

4) Argentina's midfield play and one-touch passing was very good. We're going to need a lot from Mastroeni to break up their progress and Olsen and Beasley are going to be called upon to do some serious defending.

This should be a much more interesting test for our boys than was the Canada game.

Jarrett

[Nutmeg]

Last night's game was frustrating to watch because of the pure lack of class of many of the Mexican fans @ the Coliseum. I kind of watched the game out of the corner of my eye, but my impressions are here:

The US is going to have to counter. We don't have the personnel to hold the ball - particularly in the middle of the field - against Argentina.

Insua (sp?) is good.

A well organized US team - particularly in defense - can and actually should beat this young Argentinian squad.

Mexico appears to be really struggling to replace their more well-established players. Their young defenders were particularly abysmal.

DMB and Olsen will have to keep Argentina honest on the wings by pressing forward and attacking them relentlessly. I hope they're in shape.

The US, not unexpectedly, has a significant size advantage. Can they "aprovechar?"

Argentina is fast, but more noticeably, they are quick. They close space down very quickly, so the US team, particularly Mastroeni and Donovan in the middle, will have to make very fast decisions on the ball.

The US will win this game 3-1

[Dr. Wankler]

Originally posted by FlashMan
the (R) is in case anyone gives away the Mexico/Argentina score.

Well, since the match reports so far left the score out...

Mexico 0-1 Argentina. Goal by Gonzalo Rodriguez (anyone know his domestic side right off?)

And livescore.com (not always accurate) gives 5 cautions for the match.

[dolphinscoach]

I expect this to be a physically rough match. Against Honduras, I think Argentina had two players sent off (and with 9 still looked better than Honduras with 11). Against Mexico, both sides played dirty quite a lot throughout the match (which is a shame, because both sides demonstrated some nice play at times). Who will be the ref? Mills Lane (boxing ref) might be a good choice.

I also expect this match to be played at an extremely fast pace. This young Argentinian squad looks to pressure the ball all over the pitch, and the players have great individual skills even at that pace. Expect a lot of shots and dangerous balls in the area. Also expect both sides to counter aggressively.

It will be interesting to see if Bruce plays guys with "tough guy" reputations, like Garcia, or if he will be concerned about possible cards. Also, will he risk injury to some smaller-framed guys, like Convey? And, third, will he throw a couple of new players (or players playing new positions for USMNT) to the lions, to see how they can handle this sort of pressure and physical play?

[lasoccervegas2002]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by FlashMan
[B]the (R) is in case anyone gives away the Mexico/Argentina score.

Well, I don't really see a thread like this around, so maybe I'll start one.
But our back line, and to a lesser degree our midfield, is going to have to concentrate on their tackling and positioning to keep the Argentinians at bay.


this is exactly what BA (or any coach for that matter ) instructed the guys at practice, for sure

[lasoccervegas2002]

Originally posted by dolphinscoach
I expect this to be a physically rough match. Against Honduras, I think Argentina had two players sent off (and with 9 still looked better than Honduras with 11). Against Mexico, both sides played dirty quite a lot throughout the match (which is a shame, because both sides demonstrated some nice play at times). Who will be the ref? Mills Lane (boxing ref) might be a good choice.

I also expect this match to be played at an extremely fast pace. This young Argentinian squad looks to pressure the ball all over the pitch, and the players have great individual skills even at that pace. Expect a lot of shots and dangerous balls in the area. Also expect both sides to counter aggressively.

It will be interesting to see if Bruce plays guys with "tough guy" reputations, like Garcia, or if he will be concerned about possible cards. Also, will he risk injury to some smaller-framed guys, like Convey? And, third, will he throw a couple of new players (or players playing new positions for USMNT) to the lions, to see how they can handle this sort of pressure and physical play?



it looks like Chad Mc Carthy's time to play, he is strong, tough and dicipline (it based on my 2000 olympic observation)

[goussoccer]

I saw parts of the game and was struck as well by the speed and footwork. (Not to mention Mexico's tendancy to get thugish. That was a direct red - punch to the face in the corner near the end and against the guy #15 who was tormenting them all game.)

We are going to have to be very disciplined and controlling. Without Reyna helping to calm down the middle and slowing the game down a bit it will be interesting to see how we react. I think trying to run with them will be a mistake. If we do have a significant size advantage then they did give up a lot of corner kicks, sometimes two or three in a row.

It was a physical game and the crowd was throwing things left and right. I think the late sub for Argentina got hit in the back with something. The ref will need to have strong control of the game from the outset. Good news is that he shouldn't have to fear for his life.

We are going to be tested on Saturday. It certainly won't be any 4-0 (or 3-1 IMHO) result for us. It will be quite close. We are going to see what happens when we lose the likes of McBride, Reyna, O'Brien, Sanneh and Friedel/Keller. Those guys help control the game or large patches of the pitch thereby allowing the rest of the team to operate effectively around them. However, it is also the time to start testing the new guys and this is a real test.

[Blong]

Originally posted by Dr. Wankler


Mexico 0-1 Argentina. Goal by Gonzalo Rodriguez (anyone know his domestic side right off?)



He plays for Boca Juniors. A crafty little left-back that is best at coming forward. Kind of like Roberto Carlos, without the powerful shot. I am skeptical of his defensive abilities- maybe we can "aprovechar" them.

[lasoccervegas2002]

our young team actualy more creative in attack than the veteran team, i think they'll beat them this saturday.

[roarksown1]

We win 2:1. You heard it here first. Our "experienced" team (Mathis, Donovan, Mastroeni, etc.) will plow right through those little guys. OK, it won't be that ugly, but we'll get the result. I was not impressed by them against Mexico.

[Dr. Wankler]

Originally posted by Blong
He plays for Boca Juniors. A crafty little left-back that is best at coming forward. Kind of like Roberto Carlos, without the powerful shot. I am skeptical of his defensive abilities- maybe we can "aprovechar" them.

Thanks, Blong.

[SoccerSD]

I only caught the last five minutes unfortunately...so just one question. Do the Mexicans not like Argentina, and vice versa? It seemed a very dirty "friendly".

[DoctorD]

Both sides were thuggish. In the first half the Argie's were worse than the Mexicans

[anderson]

I think this US team actually matches up better than that Mexican team with this Argie team.

Argentina was simply far better prepared, not just more talented than Mexico, last night. Bielsa reportedly watched every MFL game this weekend featuring called up players. He's well known for being obsessive - i.e., nicknamed "El Loco". He obviously knew some of the Mexican weaknesses - shakey goalkeeping, poor central defending, lack of experience with high pressure in their own end, lack of experience with midfield pressing on both sides of the ball - and played to exploit those areas from the beginning.

In contrast, the US offers relative strength in many of those areas - solid keeping (especially with crosses), competent central defenders, familiarity with deep pressure from the forwards (plus the ability to apply it which Mexico lacked), and experience with midfield pressing on both sides.

Bielsa will certainly have studied tapes of Canada and ES and whatever else his O/C personality found necessary. We'll find out where the weaknesses lie in this US team because that's where Bielsa will have his team testing at the outset. I don't think you can look at the Mexico and Honduras games and assume that you'll see the Argies employ all of the same tactics.

But there are some tactics that we can count on seeing. Bielsa's Argies in the last round of WC qualifying and the WC were consistent in seeking to get the ball forward as quickly as possible as soon as they regained possession. They play much more directly than most Latin teams play most of the time. They also consistently rely on attacking up the flanks and crossing into the box more than we typically see from most Latin teams.

So I think that means that we'll really find out how Sasha and Convey are doing in their respective lessons at outside defensive back. It also means that Mastro, Boca, and Boca's central defensive partner (Califf or Pope or whoever) will probably need to stay at home and worry more about quick, one to three pass direct counters that'll put the ball in the box far more than deliberate, multi-pass, midfield build ups. The Argies will, of couurse, pass it around in midfield, but the real threats will come from quick, flank-based counters.

And I think we'll be ok. On the left, DMB is a very solid defender whose speed will help keep up with the quick Argie flanks and buy Convey and Boca a few extra seconds. Olsen on the right, while not quite the defender as DMB, can also hustle and help out Sasha. I'm fairly confident that Mastro, Boca, and Califf/Pope, with some help from LD, who's improved significantly defensively, can keep the Argies from meandering up the middle.

I'm fairly optimistic about how we'll match up, but I still think it's ambitious to think that we'll win this game.

[Blong]

Originally posted by Blong
He plays for Boca Juniors. A crafty little left-back that is best at coming forward. Kind of like Roberto Carlos, without the powerful shot. I am skeptical of his defensive abilities- maybe we can "aprovechar" them.

Actually I'm not sure about this. I was thinking Clemente Rodriguez, not Gonzalo. Maybe he also goes by Gonzalo? I didn't see another Rodriguez on the initial camp roster, but maybe another guy was brought in to replace Delgado. Anyway, the picture on Ole doesn't look like the Clemente I know.