Player Selection and Team tactics

[JeffS]

The SZ had an interesting article on Thursday where they proposed that Klinsmann should field the Bremen midfield -Micoud +Ballack for the National Team. I can live with that if the National team would adopt Werders midfield-tactics.

Beyond Micoud and Klasnic, Werder seem to emphasize young Germans in their acquisitions, or Germans they bring up in their youth system. Couple that with the fact that they've won the BL recently, are always in contention or near the top, and they just had a pretty good Champions League run, and you have a solid nucleus for the national team.

Imagine a Germany national team comprised of largely Werder players, then add in other good players, and you have some chemistry:

-------------------------- Lehmann ---------

Owo (Werder) ----- Fahrenhorst (Werder) --- Mertesacker --- Schulz (Werder)

Frings (Werder) ------- Baumann (Werder) ------ Borowski (Werder)

--------------------------- Ballack ---------------------------

----------------- Klose (Werder) --------- Poldolski ---------------

Frankly, that line-up would be as strong as any in the current German pool, with extra added benefit of most of the starters are already used to playing with each other. Team cohesiveness cannot be underestimated.

[footyfan1]

snakeaters right - hamann lost the ball on a challenge to ronaldo who layed it off to rivaldo ans scooted off unmarked... it all happened very quickly but hamann lost the ball right in front of his goal which was absolutely criminal!


Not denying that at all guys, but when Kahn made the save, his defender should have been there to cover any rebound.

Ronaldo was alert and knew there was a possibility of a rebound. Ramelow just stood there like a dumbass.


However, do we all agree that Oliver Kahn should not shoulder all the blame? :confused:

[scorpio81]

Beyond Micoud and Klasnic, Werder seem to emphasize young Germans in their acquisitions, or Germans they bring up in their youth system. Couple that with the fact that they've won the BL recently, are always in contention or near the top, and they just had a pretty good Champions League run, and you have a solid nucleus for the national team.

Imagine a Germany national team comprised of largely Werder players, then add in other good players, and you have some chemistry:

-------------------------- Lehmann ---------

Owo (Werder) ----- Fahrenhorst (Werder) --- Mertesacker --- Schulz (Werder)

Frings (Werder) ------- Baumann (Werder) ------ Borowski (Werder)

--------------------------- Ballack ---------------------------

----------------- Klose (Werder) --------- Poldolski ---------------

Frankly, that line-up would be as strong as any in the current German pool, with extra added benefit of most of the starters are already used to playing with each other. Team cohesiveness cannot be underestimated.


if we are gonna play an attacking game anyway, we might as well go with something like that (id play lahm no matter what and definitely over schulz)... with one change -


make thomas schaaf manager! :cool:

[footyfan1]

if we are gonna play an attacking game anyway, we might as well go with something like that (id play lahm no matter what and definitely over schulz)... with one change -


make thomas schaaf manager! :cool:


Actually, I think that's not a bad idea!! :D

[JeffS]

if we are gonna play an attacking game anyway, we might as well go with something like that (id play lahm no matter what and definitely over schulz)... with one change -


make thomas schaaf manager! :cool:


Yes, Lahm would be better than Schulz. Nevertheless, I expect Schulz will get a look on the nats before long. I also left off Weisse, being that either Kahn or Lehmann are shoe-ins. But Weisse will be one of the main guys for Germany after the WC, sooner or later. He has the ability.

Also, Schaaf is an awesome manager. He's getting consistent results, and has his team playing cohesive, attacking soccer.

But he's under contract (I don't know how long) with Werder, which makes him unavailable as a consideration for Germany, if Klinsmann should quit or get sacked. Hitzfeld would be the obvious choice.

[LebenslangGruenWeiss]

I also left off Weisse, being that either Kahn or Lehmann are shoe-ins. But Weisse will be one of the main guys for Germany after the WC, sooner or later.

Say after me: TIM WIESE (not Weisse)

[JeffS]

Say after me: TIM WIESE (not Weisse)

Got it.

Being an American who only knows a sprinkling of German words and phrases, I'm not sure of a lot spellings of German words, or German names, like TIM WIESE.

Chill. If you were bothered by my misspelling, don't take offense. ;)

BTW - I don't know if you've noticed or not, but when people post on forums their spelling and grammar tend to suck. People just want to blurt out what they want to say, and not worry about spelling and grammar. I mean, we're not writing term papers or anything - we're just b.s 'ing on a stupid message board.

Anyway, TIM WIESE is a really friggin' awesome goalkeeper! :D

[JeffS]

BTW - I like your forum name - LebenslangGruenWeiss - Lifelong Green White. You like Werder Bremen, do you?

I like 'em too. From my old Soccer Made in Germany days (back in the early '80's there was a PBS show in America by that name, which showed a BL game every week), I was a big Bayern fan. Back then, in my teens, K.H. Rummenigge was my favorite player.

But in recent years, I grew fed up with Bayern, a.k.a. "FC Hollywood" and their arrogance, and their constant domination of the league. So I grew to like other clubs, most notably Borussia Dortmund and Werder Bremen.

One of the things I like about Werder is that it is a German club that relies mostly on German players, and thus they buy German up and comers, or they develop them in their youth system. It seems other BL clubs go the quick, easy route and buy lot's of foreigners, from other leagues who invested in the players' development.

But Werder likes 'em home grown, and is enjoying success for their efforts.

Another great thing about it is Werder isn't overspending, or getting themselves in deep debt.

Frankly, the German national team needs more of what Werder is doing, to increase the talent pool.

[footyfan1]

Say after me: TIM WIESE (not Weisse)


Dude.......... :o

[Gregoriak]

I mean, we're not writing term papers or anything - we're just b.s 'ing on a stupid message board.


While that is certainly true, always remember that what you are writing here for this message board will be seen and read by far more people than any term you've ever written!

[Gregoriak]

One of the things I like about Werder is that it is a German club that relies mostly on German players, and thus they buy German up and comers, or they develop them in their youth system. It seems other BL clubs go the quick, easy route and buy lot's of foreigners, from other leagues who invested in the players' development.



True again, but not so long ago, Bayern reached the CL final and played with 10 German players (plus 2 that were subbed in later):

Bayern: Kahn (c) - Babbel, Linke, Matthäus (80 Fink), Kuffour - Basler (89
Salihamidzić), Jeremies, Effenberg, Tarnat - Jancker, Zickler (71 Scholl)

That was pretty awesome, wasn't it? So it's not like Bayern has always been a team that relied heavily on non-Germans to be successful internationally.

[arthur d]

While that is certainly true, always remember that what you are writing here for this message board will be seen and read by far more people than any term you've ever written!

Then again it's fairly anonymous as well... although I am considering posting comme's real name on here given that he's still not sent me the DVDs. :D

[LebenslangGruenWeiss]

Got it.

Being an American who only knows a sprinkling of German words and phrases, I'm not sure of a lot spellings of German words, or German names, like TIM WIESE.

Chill. If you were bothered by my misspelling, don't take offense. ;)

BTW - I don't know if you've noticed or not, but when people post on forums their spelling and grammar tend to suck. People just want to blurt out what they want to say, and not worry about spelling and grammar. I mean, we're not writing term papers or anything - we're just b.s 'ing on a stupid message board.

Anyway, TIM WIESE is a really friggin' awesome goalkeeper! :D

No I don't care about spelling and grammer in general. (because I'm far, very far, from perfect in that matter). But Werder player names are somewhat important.

Actually I got the pink jersey of our player #18 for Xmas and thus it breaks my heart if a fellow Werder fan mispelles his name. No offence intended though.

I think we have to grow in interest among the american soccer fans since their affair with English football is just bizarre. And actually there are talks right now whether Werder should come to America and play some matches there against some pro teams in order to get themselves some kind of reputation. Werder actually has been associated in some way with a soccer club from Seattle in the past. I can't remember the name right now and I'm not sure whether Allofs or Fischer still have some interest in that club.

[shutoutj]

The SZ had an interesting article on Thursday where they proposed that Klinsmann should field the Bremen midfield -Micoud +Ballack for the National Team. I can live with that if the National team would adopt Werders midfield-tactics.
That's very similar to what they do now though.
Borowski plays often on the right(he should start, with Schneider as a second choice. I really don't like Deisler after seeing the Italy game, and he's never been the same after his episode a couple years back anyway).
Frings is always in and out of the team, but I really like Schweinsteiger a lot better on the wings. Baumann I think would hold the team very well together at DM like he does at Bremen, but Kehl is having a good season as well and Klinsmann should stop ignoring him.

[JeffS]

No I don't care about spelling and grammer in general. (because I'm far, very far, from perfect in that matter). But Werder player names are somewhat important.

Actually I got the pink jersey of our player #18 for Xmas and thus it breaks my heart if a fellow Werder fan mispelles his name. No offence intended though.

I think we have to grow in interest among the american soccer fans since their affair with English football is just bizarre. And actually there are talks right now whether Werder should come to America and play some matches there against some pro teams in order to get themselves some kind of reputation. Werder actually has been associated in some way with a soccer club from Seattle in the past. I can't remember the name right now and I'm not sure whether Allofs or Fischer still have some interest in that club.

That would be great! Just tell them to come to Northern California (San Francisco, San Jose, Sacramento, whichever). I'll be there at the game(s), with wife and kids (startin' my daughters early on watching German soccer). ;)

As for me, I've always liked the Bundesliga and the German national team better than the EPL and the England team. I've always felt the Germans played a more complete game. Plus, as I mentioned before, I watched "Soccer Made in Germany" in my teens and early 20's, so it's a natural for me to pull for German teams (after American teams, of course).

As for the spelling thing, I was just razing you. You're right, the player names should be spelled correctly. It's just that my memory sucks sometimes, as well as my understanding of proper German spelling. And I'm too lazy to go to Werder (or BVB, or Bayern, or whatever) website and and check the spelling of a player's name (I just wanna post, dammit!). :)

["Eisenfuß" Eilts]

Werder actually has been associated in some way with a soccer club from Seattle in the past. I can't remember the name right now and I'm not sure whether Allofs or Fischer still have some interest in that club.

Seattle Sounders was the name of the club. :)
I know, that Alexander Nouri was a year on loan in Seattle.

Found an old article about it:
a-league.com (http://a-league.com/news/2000/news,2000,0007.shtml)

But i also don´t know, if there is still a coorperation between both clubs. :confused:

[Snakeater]

Has Huth cracked the Chelsea 11? I was just checking out his season statistics, and it appears that he's started and played in every minute of the last 5 games Chelsea have played, not including the two Champion's League games against Barcelona.

If Huth can earn himself a starting post in that lineup that would be quite an accomplishment.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/players/gamelog?id=18891&cc=5739

[footyfan1]

Has Huth cracked the Chelsea 11? I was just checking out his season statistics, and it appears that he's started and played in every minute of the last 5 games Chelsea have played, not including the two Champion's League games against Barcelona.

If Huth can earn himself a starting post in that lineup that would be quite an accomplishment.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/players/gamelog?id=18891&cc=5739


The fact that he didn't start the CL matches and the fact they have a 15 point lead in the Premiership should tell you something.

I think it says something that when the money is on the line, Huth's ass is usually firmly attached to the bench......

[JeffS]

The fact that he didn't start the CL matches and the fact they have a 15 point lead in the Premiership should tell you something.


What that tells me is that Huth is young, and that Gallas and Terry (frankly among the best fullbacks in the game) are much more experienced and further along in their development. Jose Maurinho is not stupid. No matter how much ability/talent Huth may or may not have, when it comes to crunch time, the veterens, who are established starters (and stars) for both club and country, are going to get the lion's share of PT, period. It says absolutely nothing negative about Robert Huth.


I think it says something that when the money is on the line, Huth's ass is usually firmly attached to the bench......

And what's wrong with that? The guy is 20 years old, and Terry and Gallas are seasoned pros, who are long established starters (and stars) for both club and country.

If you think it's bad that Huth plays behind these guys, then it must be bad if someone like, say, (in a hypothetical team) a Landon Donovan plays behind Ronaldinho and Pavel Nedved. Yeah, Donovan must be bad if isn't preferred ahead of Ronaldinho and Pavel Nedved. :rolleyes:

In short, if a young up and coming talent has to play behind two of the best in the world at their position, there is no shame in that.

Frankly, the fact that Huth has been earning some PT at all on a very very deep Chelsea squad says a lot about his development, and is a little bit of a reason for optimism for his playing for Germany.

If Jose Maurinho thinks Huth is good enough to earn some PT with deep pocketed, all star Chelsea, then I think he's good enough for Germany, and I'm very pleased with this turn of events. This is not only because Huth is earning PT with a very deep squad, but he is also getting some PT, which is extremely crucial leading up to the WC.

And let's face it, Klinsmann likes Huth a lot, and obviously is banking on Huth's development. So for better or worse, we Germany fans are stuck with Huth (and Mertesacker, and CMetz). So we should all be very pleased with any positives on the youngster's development.

Another thing about Robert Huth: During the offseason, a number of clubs (Bayern among them) courted Huth, either for full transfer or a loan deal. Chelsea wouldn't do it. That says a lot about Huth, both in terms of clubs wanted him, and in terms of all star Chelsea weren't willing to give him up.

But then again, I tend to be an optimist. ;)

[footyfan1]

What that tells me is that Huth is young, and that Gallas and Terry (frankly among the best fullbacks in the game) are much more experienced and further along in their development. Jose Maurinho is not stupid. No matter how much ability/talent Huth may or may not have, when it comes to crunch time, the veterens, who are established starters (and stars) for both club and country, are going to get the lion's share of PT, period. It says absolutely nothing negative about Robert Huth.



And what's wrong with that? The guy is 20 years old, and Terry and Gallas are seasoned pros, who are long established starters (and stars) for both club and country.

If you think it's bad that Huth plays behind these guys, then it must be bad if someone like, say, (in a hypothetical team) a Landon Donovan plays behind Ronaldinho and Pavel Nedved. Yeah, Donovan must be bad if isn't preferred ahead of Ronaldinho and Pavel Nedved. :rolleyes:

In short, if a young up and coming talent has to play behind two of the best in the world at their position, there is no shame in that.

Frankly, the fact that Huth has been earning some PT at all on a very very deep Chelsea squad says a lot about his development, and is a little bit of a reason for optimism for his playing for Germany.

If Jose Maurinho thinks Huth is good enough to earn some PT with deep pocketed, all star Chelsea, then I think he's good enough for Germany, and I'm very pleased with this turn of events. This is not only because Huth is earning PT with a very deep squad, but he is also getting some PT, which is extremely crucial leading up to the WC.

And let's face it, Klinsmann likes Huth a lot, and obviously is banking on Huth's development. So for better or worse, we Germany fans are stuck with Huth (and Mertesacker, and CMetz). So we should all be very pleased with any positives on the youngster's development.

Another thing about Robert Huth: During the offseason, a number of clubs (Bayern among them) courted Huth, either for full transfer or a loan deal. Chelsea wouldn't do it. That says a lot about Huth, both in terms of clubs wanted him, and in terms of all star Chelsea weren't willing to give him up.

But then again, I tend to be an optimist. ;)


Great points. You do tend to be an optimist, but that's not a bad thing. I do tend to be a pessimist. On top of that, I'm no Robert Huth fan. I think he's severely overrated.

I refuse to "drink the Kool-Aid" when it comes to Huth. I'm sure Chelsea are getting him time to see exactly what it is they have and if he will get better with playing time. You know, not everyone does, no matter how much freakin' potential they have.

Does Huth have all the potential in the world?? Hell yeah. I'm not crazy enough to deny that.

Is he ready or as good as some make him out to be? Hell no. Not in my opinion anyhow. And I think his last few international peformances have proven that.

Is Mourinho bringing him along well? I'd say so. But again, not everyone with great potential gets better with time.

Also, you somehow insuinated that my saying his not getting off the bench behind those guys in front of him means he's bad.

Stop assuming. What I meant was that tells me he isn't trusted enough to be played with the money on the line. Why didn't they play Huth in the Premiership before they built the big lead in order to rest the "big guys" for the CL.

He isn't trusted enough........


But to be fair, let's take Huth out of there and put him on a German team's roster. I don't think he would have started for Bayern or Bremen either. Right now, even at our sorry ass club (You can tell I'm pissed at BVB right now ;) ), he'd definitely be behind Woerns and more than likely behind both Brzenska and Metzelder too.

Simply put, he's not ready. That's what I meant. But I guess it's not what I actually mean, it's what you think I mean, eh???


As far as the other clubs who wanted Huth before the season, that was created by the press more than anything. Those clubs didn't want him because of anything he did on the pitch, they wanted him because they assume he's going to be great because of all the press he's getting.

And as far as why Chelsea didn't sell, it wasn't about Chelsea wanting to keep him no matter what, it was about none of clubs meeting Mourinho's price for Huth. Yeah, yeah. Jose said he wanted Robert to stay. Standard verbage for "You'll have to bid more than that......."

You think it would be any sweat off Mourinho's nuts to find a replacement for Robert Huth??

S#it man. All Chelsea would do is brush off Roman's checkbook and write a huge check to West Ham for Anton Ferdinand, who's better than Huth anyhow. S#it, right now, Anton Ferdinand is better than his brother too!! LOL!!

When Mourinho said Chelsea wouldn't be "giving players away" anymore last season, he wasn't kidding. That's what happened before this season. No one met their price.

That wasn't any "great loyalty" to f#ckin' Robert Huth.....

Then again, I guess it's all in how you look at it, eh????

Amazing how differently two people can see the same situation.