Falwell: Jews can get to heaven

[#10 Jersey]

An evangelical pastor and an Orthodox rabbi, both from Texas, have apparently persuaded leading Baptist preacher Jerry Falwell that Jews can get to heaven without being converted to Christianity.

Televangelist John Hagee and Rabbi Aryeh Scheinberg, whose Cornerstone Church and Rodfei Sholom congregations are based in San Antonio, told The Jerusalem Post that Falwell had adopted Hagee's innovative belief in what Christians refer to as "dual covenant" theology.

This creed, which runs counter to mainstream evangelism, maintains that the Jewish people has a special relationship to God through the revelation at Sinai and therefore does not need "to go through Christ or the Cross" to get to heaven.....

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1139395509016

Sure sounds like the different paths theory

[Samarkand]

This is going to be so interesting what with the good ol' Jerry trying to explain the no one can come to the father except through me bit except if you're Jewish, have your forms stamped in triplicate and so on. Wonder if his base will make him retract his new found belief system when they find out about this?

[christopher d]

Woah. Wouldn't that include Muslims, too? Moses is quite the prophet in Islam.
"Say (O Muslims): we believe in Allah and that which is revealed to us and that which was revealed to Abraham and Ishmael, and Isaac and Jacob, and their children, and that which Moses and Jesus received and that the prophets received from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them and unto Him we have surrendered." Moses (along with Noah, Abraham, Jesus and Muhammed) is revered as a "Resolute Prophet".

How's he going to get out of this one?

[CrewDust]

Wow, Falwell is taking this pro-Israel thing to the max.

[#10 Jersey]

Woah. Wouldn't that include Muslims, too? Moses is quite the prophet in Islam.
Moses (along with Noah, Abraham, Jesus and Muhammed) is revered as a "Resolute Prophet".

How's he going to get out of this one?

I'm dense, not getting your point. Doesn't he believe in the special path for Jews because of the covenant at Sinai.

Wouldn't he argue that there is no similar covenant that excludes Muslims? Not saying I agree.

[christopher d]

I'm dense, not getting your point. Doesn't he believe in the special path for Jews because of the covenant at Sinai.

Wouldn't he argue that there is no similar covenant that excludes Muslims? Not saying I agree.
Right, but if Jehovah laid down the law to Moses at Sinai, and Muslims follow that law, wouldn't they be covered (at least in their minds) under that covenant as well?

[#10 Jersey]

Right, but if Jehovah laid down the law to Moses at Sinai, and Muslims follow that law, wouldn't they be covered (at least in their minds) under that covenant as well?

does the koran speak about a covenant at all? I'm guessing no. Not for jews, not for muslims.

I also believe that there is a major difference in the understanding of Moses by Jews and Muslims. The hebrew bible has the promised land for the Jews, I don't believe islam holds similarly.

That changes Moses' mission/purpose quite a bit

[christopher d]

does the koran speak about a covenant at all? I'm guessing no. Not for jews, not for muslims.

I also believe that there is a major difference in the understanding of Moses by Jews and Muslims. The hebrew bible has the promised land for the Jews, I don't believe islam holds similarly.

That changes Moses' mission/purpose quite a bitFrom the admittedly little I've read, Muslims approach Moses closer to the way the Jews do than the Christians, and I believe they get their source material from the same place Jews and Christians do -- the Hebrew Bible (hence the term "Religions of the Book").

Of course if I'm wildiy off-base, gentle corrections are appreciated :)

[#10 Jersey]

I should have named the thread

Woo-Hoo. I'm not going to hell!

[Dr. Wankler]

I should have named the thread

Woo-Hoo. I'm not going to hell!

The key word here is "can."

Not "will," "can."

;)

[#10 Jersey]

The key word here is "can."

Not "will," "can."

;)

huh? please clarify

[Dr. Wankler]

huh? please clarify

I read Falwell as saying Jews can get into heaven, which isn't the same as saying they will get into heaven.

So, from the perspective of Jerry Falwell, you still might be on the big wide road to the hot place.

Of course, that's not his call, ultimately.

[Samarkand]

Of course, that's not his call, ultimately.
That's not what he believes. :D

[BenReilly]

I read Falwell as saying Jews can get into heaven, which isn't the same as saying they will get into heaven.

So, from the perspective of Jerry Falwell, you still might be on the big wide road to the hot place.

hgold is in good shape. I might be in a little trouble.

[BenReilly]

From the admittedly little I've read, Muslims approach Moses closer to the way the Jews do than the Christians, and I believe they get their source material from the same place Jews and Christians do -- the Hebrew Bible (hence the term "Religions of the Book").

If we could just enforce the copyright.

[BenReilly]

Wow, Falwell is taking this pro-Israel thing to the max.

Hehe. I'm not complaining. :D

[Samarkand]

If the Jews can get in, do they get the premium suite of sevices or do they have to sit at the back of the bus?

It's questions like this will determine if heaven is really a place for full blooded Aryans.

[Rostam]

Originally Posted by Quran 2:136
"Say (O Muslims): we believe in Allah and that which is revealed to us and that which was revealed to Abraham and Ishmael, and Isaac and Jacob, and their children, and that which Moses and Jesus received and that the prophets received from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them and unto Him we have surrendered."
From the admittedly little I've read, Muslims approach Moses closer to the way the Jews do than the Christians, and I believe they get their source material from the same place Jews and Christians do -- the Hebrew Bible (hence the term "Religions of the Book").

Of course if I'm wildiy off-base, gentle corrections are appreciated :)

You are absolutely right but the discrepency that you see in the argument is based on "modern reformed Jews" (Reformed Ashkenazis) which is very much politically inclined than religious bases. The Sephardic Jeudaism which never experienced "Reforms" (maybe because Sephardic Jews didn't experience the harsh life of the Ashkenazis and therefore, their geo-poltical need for "reform") is much close and not as hostile towards Moslems.
One of the major complaints from the Sephardic immigrants is that they think some of the Ashkenazi school of thought is being forced upon them (thru rabi's and Synogages) and they rather stay within their own beliief system.

[BenReilly]

You are absolutely right but the discrepency that you see in the argument is based on "modern reformed Jews" (Reformed Ashkenazis) which is very much politically inclined than religious bases. The Sephardic Jeudaism which never experienced "Reforms" (maybe because Sephardic Jews didn't experience the harsh life of the Ashkenazis and therefore, their geo-poltical need for "reform") is much close and not as hostile towards Moslems.
One of the major complaints from the Sephardic immigrants is that they think some of the Ashkenazi school of thought is being forced upon them (thru rabi's and Synogages) and they rather stay within their own beliief system.

We have another expert on Judaism :rolleyes:

[Rostam]

We have another expert on Judaism :rolleyes:

I am no expert and that wasn't a personal opinion, rather a reflection of what I have gathered by reading and knowing Jews. It doesn't mean every single jew follows that path. It's just the division in thinking whichin reality started after the death of Solomon. (Northern Highland Saramai vs. the Southern highland Juda-Yahuds) :)

besides, most Iranians know quite a bit about Jews,we think of them as our unruly children :p