Im digusted...

[littleman]

Actually, I think what made the towers collapse wasn't the impact from the plane itself but the tremors on the ground caused by it (which is why some neighbouring buildings suffered structural damage as well).

[Stud83]

SM, just to confirm: you actually believe in the whole conspiracy theory and that the US goverment was directly responsible for the attacks on Sept 11?

[SirManchester]

SM, just to confirm: you actually believe in the whole conspiracy theory and that the US goverment was directly responsible for the attacks on Sept 11?

I've stated this before, I don't buy into the whole conspiracy theory, because many of its arguments have no ground, however I'm not writing off the bigger picture. There are way too many questions left unanswered and I'm not writing the idea that it could be an inside job off. I don't for a minute however buy the popular belief about 911, and the crap that Bush's administration brainwashed America with.

[johno]

I was never able to find out one way or the other if indeed as rumoured, the mossad and french intelligence warned the cia and fbi of some sort of plot beforehand.

[benni...]

Even one of the goverment officals... whose name slips my mind at the moment... said we failed you (us in the country) I assumed it was because despite many warnings, they refused to take heed..


But like Sirmac said... There are too many questions un answered to take any side... I do not put any act of corruption past our president and government officials.

[johno]

http://toccionline.kizash.com/movies/d.r.a.f.t./


I know most of you have heard/seen this before but its still damn funny!!!

[Achtung]

I simply don't agree with anything you've just said because none of your points apply to what actually happened and that's fair enough, ultimately its your word against that of the designer of both buildings.

:rolleyes:
How about the word of the chief engineer on the World Trade Center, Leslie Robertson?

We had designed the project for the impact of the, our largest aeroplane of its time, the, the Boeing 707. That is to take this jet aeroplane, run it into the building, destroy a lot of structure and still have it stand up.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2001/worldtradecentertrans.shtml

Now, if you can find a reputable source that contradicts that, please do.

[johno]

oooh... no more mr. nice mod :D

[Achtung]

\And that thing about the planes nearly disintegrating in mid-air, sorry but I'm not buying it.

Again, :rolleyes: .

The second plane was flying so fast that it was in danger of breaking up in the air as it approached the south tower, Boeing spokeswoman Liz Verdier told the Times.

“These guys exceeded even the emergency dive speed,” Verdier said. “It's off the chart.”

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/02/25/attack/main501989.shtml

Got anymore?

[Achtung]

oooh... no more mr. nice mod :D

I just have a very finely tuned bullshit detector is all. Ever since I was a kid, I just hated ignorance and the spreading of such, regardless of whether its BushCo or folks having a debate on an internet forum. If you're going to debate, do it with provable facts.

Peter: I'll handle it, Lois. I read a book about this sort of thing once.
Brian: Are you sure it was a book? Are you sure it wasn't nothing?
Peter: Oh yeah.

[SirManchester]

:rolleyes:
How about the word of the chief engineer on the World Trade Center, Leslie Robertson?



http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2001/worldtradecentertrans.shtml

Now, if you can find a reputable source that contradicts that, please do.

Regardless of what model flew into the towers, it shouldn't have gone down so fast and the way it did.

[SirManchester]

I just have a very finely tuned bullshit detector is all. Ever since I was a kid, I just hated ignorance and the spreading of such, regardless of whether its BushCo or folks having a debate on an internet forum. If you're going to debate, do it with provable facts.


there's nothing bullshit about what I said, I simply posed a question, I never implied I have all the answers, nor do you, nor does anyone else. Am I being ignorant in being interested rather than sitting back an accepting whatever I've been told like pryme? ******** NO!

[Achtung]

Regardless of what model flew into the towers, it shouldn't have gone down so fast and the way it did.

Well I guess its safe to assume you have more phyiscs training than I do, and certainly more than the architects and engineers who have explained in many venues the science behind what happened. I won't insult you further since I'm sure you already know how to Google all that information.

[prymetyme]

there's nothing bullshit about what I said, I simply posed a question, I never implied I have all the answers, nor do you, nor does anyone else. Am I being ignorant in being interested rather than sitting back an accepting whatever I've been told like pryme? ******** NO!
what what the hell is your problem I havent done anything to you except tell you what the facts are. Dont call me out because your accepting conspiracy theorys that have to be watched on video google and im sure cbs hasnt even heard on them. Im sorry but im going to trust the people who designed the towers over you.

Do you actually think that people would spend years and everyone would totaly agree and everyone involved goverment,pilots,air traffic control, military,civilans would just shut up and never speak of it again? do you think they would have planned implosions, voice changers, fire missiles into the pentagon for a couple laughs? If you seriously think your goverment is out to get you that bad you might as well just leave America.

And by the way Im not just sitting back and accepting everything people say, Im not accepting your opionon, that poorly made video, and all the conspiracys. So you might as well not waste your time thinking youve 1-uped a 15 year old, but I guess if thats what helps you sleep at night, go for it.

[Achtung]

there's nothing bullshit about what I said, I simply posed a question

You're confusing bullshit with intelligent dissent. If you're going to pose questions, your effort to obtain answers to them need to involve sticking to the facts, rather than simply assuming that there aren't any answers publicly available and hence coming to the conclusion that the answers must be of a shady nature.

Just off the top of my head, I managed to refute two things you claimed as truth, and found dependable sources without trying very hard. I could go further if I wanted to, but honestly its just not worth my time. Everything has an answer, and sometimes you don't even have to look very hard. If you want your opinions to be taken seriously, you have to find those answers, rather than just asking open-ended questions.

Now when the available answers aren't satisfactory, that's when its time to start calling people out and demanding that they be held accountable. But until then, you'll just end up looking like you've got a tin foil hat on.

[prymetyme]

For those of you here who have been to Ground Zero, they have a bit of reasoning on one of the plaques for scientificly why it fell.

[SirManchester]

what what the hell is your problem I havent done anything to you except tell you what the facts are. Dont call me out because your accepting conspiracy theorys that have to be watched on video google and im sure cbs hasnt even heard on them. Im sorry but im going to trust the people who designed the towers over you.

Do you actually think that people would spend years and everyone would totaly agree and everyone involved goverment,pilots,air traffic control, military,civilans would just shut up and never speak of it again? do you think they would have planned implosions, voice changers, fire missiles into the pentagon for a couple laughs? If you seriously think your goverment is out to get you that bad you might as well just leave America.

And by the way Im not just sitting back and accepting everything people say, Im not accepting your opionon, that poorly made video, and all the conspiracys. So you might as well not waste your time thinking youve 1-uped a 15 year old, but I guess if thats what helps you sleep at night, go for it.

It's always difficult to reason with you because you always tend to go around what someone responds to you with. To clarify things, this is exactly what you said : "Im just saying what Ive read and what Ive been told. What I learned and experienced that day changed me and from that day I became a strong Bush supporter"

Second, I don't accept all conspiracy theories, look back a page or two, where I specifically said I don't believe them all, in fact I wrote off the video this thread was based on. I never doubted any of the designers nor have I ever called them out, so I'm not sure where you're going with that. I never forced my views over you.

And yes, I do believe that our administration would actually go through the long and complex process of constructing this attack, if that was really in their interest. How else are they going to stage something this big? the ysure as hell aren't gonna talk it up over the weekend.
And I should have accepted that typical enthnocentric "get out of america if you don't like it" crap from you. Hell, if anything, all I'm asking is to be more aware and try to understand all perspectives. Then again, you're just a kid too. you're right I shouldn't be the one wasting my time on you.

[SirManchester]

You're confusing bullshit with intelligent dissent. If you're going to pose questions, your effort to obtain answers to them need to involve sticking to the facts, rather than simply assuming that there aren't any answers publicly available and hence coming to the conclusion that the answers must be of a shady nature.

Just off the top of my head, I managed to refute two things you claimed as truth, and found dependable sources without trying very hard. I could go further if I wanted to, but honestly its just not worth my time. Everything has an answer, and sometimes you don't even have to look very hard. If you want your opinions to be taken seriously, you have to find those answers, rather than just asking open-ended questions.

Now when the available answers aren't satisfactory, that's when its time to start calling people out and demanding that they be held accountable. But until then, you'll just end up looking like you've got a tin foil hat on.

how many times to I have to say it? I pose questions because I don't have the answers, do you want me to stop posing them as well. and since we're talking conspiracy theories, all the sources I would bring up would be just that, and other posters who will go unnamed on this thread have already dismissed them, so what's the point? only to continue a back and forth one on one with you? no thanks.

[Achtung]

how many times to I have to say it? I pose questions because I don't have the answers, do you want me to stop posing them as well. and since we're talking conspiracy theories, all the sources I would bring up would be just that, and other posters who will go unnamed on this thread have already dismissed them, so what's the point? only to continue a back and forth one on one with you? no thanks.

Since you seem to have missed the point of my previous post, I'll say it one more time. Many of the questions you have do have answers. Those that are publicly available may require more effort to find. Others may not have been revealed for purposes of security. It accomplishes nothing to make assumptions that because you're not finding answers easily it must mean that there are sinister motives behind everything. Filling in the holes with "something" though is the reason Oliver Stone has a career...

All you keep doing is saying you have credible sources on this and that, except that I'm actually presenting sources which refute what you're saying. Unless of course you don't consider CBS and the BBC to be credible.

If you're willing to accept that you need complete information in order to come to a conclusion, then this debate serves a purpose. Otherwise I'm just talking to a wall.

[SirManchester]

Since you seem to have missed the point of my previous post, I'll say it one more time. Many of the questions you have do have answers. Those that are publicly available may require more effort to find. Others may not have been revealed for purposes of security. It accomplishes nothing to make assumptions that because you're not finding answers easily it must mean that there are sinister motives behind everything. Filling in the holes with "something" though is the reason Oliver Stone has a career...

All you keep doing is saying you have credible sources on this and that, except that I'm actually presenting sources which refute what you're saying. Unless of course you don't consider CBS and the BBC to be credible.

If you're willing to accept that you need complete information in order to come to a conclusion, then this debate serves a purpose. Otherwise I'm just talking to a wall.

I find it incredibly pompous of you to single me out in all this, I already know how to acquire information, if I feel like I made an assumption which needs backing up I'll gladly put it up, (I've done so in the past) and In this case I don't think I did, I raised questions relative to the context of this thread for everyone else to see and put in their two cents. That didn't happen, because for some reason nobody with the exception of a couple of posters can be reasonable and mature. If you really think this way, then go ahead, just do me a favor and don't continue to repeat this. let's just leave it at that.