Im digusted...

[Numquam Moribimur]

Benni ...i have to ask who killed JFK ?

[SirManchester]

Benni ...i have to ask who killed JFK ?

oh please, is this your attempt to throw him off? bringing up something totally irrelevant to our time? good one Paul

[Numquam Moribimur]

Before Hussein you had all these different religious groups put together by the French and British, the country was in shambles and looked like it wouldn't last, Hussein came in power and pretty much said "the only killing will be done by me". He was actually responsible for unifying the country and getting it started. And while I don't agree with his ::hurm:: dictatorial ways...look at the country now, nobody in their right mind will tell you that it's better off than before.

Oh yea, and since it was clear that Iraq had no ties with Al-Quada prior to America's entry, why didn't Bush go after those so called terrorists? With his post-911 agenda, he went on a complete tangent with this one.



Well Iraq is better off for the simple reason that Hussein is not in power anymore......


for Bush's agend ---Yes the Intelligence was not right so to be honest i dont have answer with you on that

[SirManchester]

Well Iraq is better off for the simple reason that Hussein is not in power anymore......




But the U.S. went in with the goal of making Iraq a better place without him, which its clearly not. In a country torn by three religious extremes, a democracy is NOT going to work. Hussein kept them in check at least and the country was better off than it is now.

[Sapphire]

Secondly...NEITHER OF US KNOW ALL THE FACTS... so dismissing either side of the story is unfair... even if the video posed questions that the Authorities cannot asnwer (wonder why).Let me draw your attention again to my analogy. There are other conspiracy theories (Or witness accounts, or unexplained bits of information, or whatever you'd like to call them), which are deeply anti-semitic in nature. I reject them on premise alone. I don't need to see the evidence, I don't need to know where the Pentagon plane is, I simply know the jews didn't orchestrate 911 -- it's ridiculous and it doesn't need to be discussed, cut and dry, end of. (And these arguments were all over the place after 911, and I would imagine many people still believe similar things). If people want to discuss such arguments fine, but I'll say I think that it's ridiculous and move on.

I realize you're not making that argument, of course; I bring it up as an analogy, because the premise of this documentary, while not despicably racist like the other argument, is equally ridiculous, in my opinion. Bush blew up the WTC?? Even though he's despicable in my opinion, he couldn't get away with it if he wanted to. Feel free to disagree. Feel free to demand evidence about the truck with the gold or whatever. From my perspective, I don't think it needs to be discussed, except to say it's just too ridiculous from the start.

[Numquam Moribimur]

But the U.S. went in with the goal of making Iraq a better place without him, which its clearly not. In a country torn by three religious extremes, a democracy is NOT going to work. Hussein kept them in check at least and the country was better off than it is now.


Sadly since the 1900's the usa has been look on as the country to help other countries in a time a need and in theroy the idea of replacing the goverment was a good idea but it's going through bad times right now ....but for me in the long run Iraq will turn out , but then again i am just a bush fan boy :p

[SirManchester]

Sadly since the 1900's the usa has been look on as the country to help other countries in a time a need and in theroy the idea of replacing the goverment was a good idea but it's going through bad times right now ....but for me in the long run Iraq will turn out , but then again i am just a bush fan boy :p

for whatever reason I will never understand.

[Numquam Moribimur]

I have yet to watch the whole video bc the stream keeps buffering for some odd reason but from what Sapph and others are saying it looks like i am going to be screaming at my Laptop :cool:

[benni...]

Sapphire... I just like to tell you... Biggie and 2pacs murderers havnt been found... either... the world if full of faeces....

You may ask what this has to do with the conversation... just a sign of how corrupt the authorities can be.

[SirManchester]

I have yet to watch the whole video bc the stream keeps buffering for some odd reason but from what Sapph and others are saying it looks like i am going to be screaming at my Laptop :cool:

this video isn't exactly the best example of the overall theory of government involvment in 9-11, but because it isn't, doesn't mean you should throw the idea out completely. It's always best to look at things from both sides and be as informed as possible. Then you can make begin to form your own opinion.

[Numquam Moribimur]

Sapphire... I just like to tell you... Biggie and 2pacs murderers havnt been found... either... the world if full of faeces....

You may ask what this has to do with the conversation... just a sign of how corrupt the authorities can be.


I say, 2pac is alive the man has had more cd's come out after his death then he did before ...kinda crazy eh :eek:

[Achtung]

Sadly since the 1900's the usa has been look on as the country to help other countries in a time a need

That's the way many Americans view themselves in the world, as the country whose job it is to "make things right" and make the world safe for democracy and all that (just an extension of the white man's burden theory in my opinion). The majority of the rest of the world sees our government and military as a bullying nuisance who needs to stop telling everyone how to live their lives and pretending to care about the well-being of other countries when in reality our corporations are in the business of nation-building to increase their own profits.

[Numquam Moribimur]

That's the way many Americans view themselves in the world, as the country whose job it is to "make things right" and make the world safe for democracy and all that (just an extension of the white man's burden theory in my opinion). The majority of the rest of the world sees our government and military as a bullying nuisance who needs to stop telling everyone how to live their lives and pretending to care about the well-being of other countries when in reality our corporations are in the business of nation-building to increase their own profits.


I agree with everything you say---but the people who say we are bullying; are they the same people who cry for more aid from the us when something happens.

[Sapphire]

Sapphire... I just like to tell you... Biggie and 2pacs murderers havnt been found... either... the world if full of faeces....

You may ask what this has to do with the conversation... just a sign of how corrupt the authorities can be.I know what you're saying, and totally agree. Lord Acton wrote that absolute power corrupts absolutely. I completely believe that, and I think that questioning authority and holding its feet to the fire is not only a right but a fundamental responsiblity of a citizen. In contrary to a strain of political thought which is unfortunately often popular throughout US history, I believe that it is the good citizen who questions authority, the bad citizen who blindly accepts that the president/congress/local authorities should be inherently trusted.

I just think you're off the mark in this particular case.

[SirManchester]

I agree with everything you say---but the people who say we are bullying; are they the same people who cry for more aid from the us when something happens.

and as Eddie Murphy famously said in his 1987 stand up: "What have you done for me lately?"

[Sapphire]

I agree with everything you say---but the people who say we are bullying; are they the same people who cry for more aid from the us when something happens.Well, don't forget that aid also benefits the US. If we give money to Nigeria to build roads and infrastructure, then US companies can more easily ship out natural resources from there to make cell phones or whatever, for example. It's much harder to do if the people there are starving and killing each other. (I'm kind of talking out my ass here, because it's been ages since I've researched specific African affairs and Nigeria is quite stable, but you see my point). Plus, we get to be the benevolent saviour, blessing the helpless country with aid and acting like it's completely out of the goodness of our heart.

[Achtung]

I agree with everything you say---but the people who say we are bullying; are they the same people who cry for more aid from the us when something happens.

But people in other countries don't sit there and cry, "America, please help us!" If there is a refugee or genocide situation, they deserve the help of the UN, but that damn sure wasn't the case in Iraq (or Vietnam).

There are, however, places such as Darfur which could use our help. But of course we're not helping. I won't get into the reasons why I think that is the case.

[SirManchester]

Last I remember, the U.S. helped Pakistan out a great deal. Handled their own natural disaster pretty well too ontop of it.

[Achtung]

Plus, we get to be the benevolent saviour, blessing the helpless country with aid and acting like it's completely out of the goodness of our heart.

Well, the problem is that a lot of our so-called "aid" ends up helping US corporations and then either not helping or even hurting the foreign countries.

[Sapphire]

Well, the problem is that a lot of our so-called "aid" ends up helping US corporations and then either not helping or even hurting the foreign countries.Yup.
. . .