Leo Messi news and Comments

[Craps]

i'll agree with people who say that messi exaggerated on his hit will del horno, and i do not justify this. but del horno cleated messi, ripped his shorts, and messi just sits there fixing them, and then gets up and keeps playing. i think this shows a lot about his class, and it shows that he is good enough to take out his aggrivation in a fair way, without pissing and whining to the ref. props to leo.

[BigSoccer Bot]

Después de su enorme actuación ante Chelsea, el delantero habló de su felicidad y de sus ilusiones. "La Selección tiene un equipazo", le dijo a Clarín en Barcelona. Y a días del partido ante Croacia, apuntó: "Sería bárbaro poder mantener el nivel".

Link To Original Article (http://www.clarin.com/diario/2006/02/25/deportes/d-06801.htm)

[comme]

I said in my post that simulating is a sin--and by that I did mean
to show that I understand how it's wrong and offending.

But what I'm arguing for is a sense of perspective here. Is simulating
worse than dangerous, illegal fouls intended to snuff out creative play
and bruise the game's ball-handlers?

It all depends on the foul.

Let's think about that.

You put the words creative players in quotations--"creative players,"
subtly indicating that there is perhaps something a little precious, a
little effeminate, about the idea of these artists in need of protection
from the refs.

No, I use it in inverted commas for two reasons,

1.I think that all players should be properly protected by the referees, not just those who are creative.

2. There are some creative players who do go down easily, and some that don't. I don't think all should be tarred with the same brush.

Really? Two months ago Francesco Totti told the Italian papers: "I'm
worried I won't make the World Cup, my ankles are always bruised, I'm
constantly getting fouled." I started a thread about this on the Italian
boards, and in no time came the scoffers with their macho posing: "Oh
please, that diver, such a whining crybaby etc. etc."

The Gazzetta dello Sport subsequently did a study which showed that
in the entire history of Italian soccer, no player had been fouled more
regularly than Totti--every 13 minutes, in came an illegal challenge, this
ratio being worse than those for Maradona, Baggio, Kaka, and anyone
else with skill. Yet the doubters still scoffed.

We all know what happened next--another late, illegal, challenge, this
one ominously from behind, and that was it. Season done, World Cup
hopes more or less in smoke, Totti's ankle had been fractured, and with
ligament damage.

I sadly haven't seen that tackle I must confess, so I don't intend to comment on it specifically. Perhaps you can tell me though what happened to the offender? Was he sent off?

The one point I will make is that Totti is the like the boy who cries wolf, if you feign fouls and pretend to be hurt, then when it does happen many people have no sympathy.

I'd like to know how the creative player you scoff at, the Totti or Messi
or Ronaldinho who's being illegally fouled every 15 minutes or so and put at
risk, is, in such circumstances, the mortal sinner, while the defender who
is breaking the rules but dangerously, is the venial sinner, and even,
in your post, a victim?

I scoff at the Robbens, the Pireses, the Luis Garcias. The players who make referees lives impossible by cheating. I used the boy who cried wolf example with Totti, but it's equally true of Robben, he feigns injury and goes down all the time. In my opinion, had he gone down under the challenge of Messi on Wednesday, he would have won a foul. For once he stayed on his feet and the foul wasn't given.

If people go down as if they are shot at the slightest challenge, how are the referees to know what is a dangerous foul?

My point on this is clear: A dangerous and deliberate foul is unacceptable and deserves a red card, that is the "professional foul". However, an over exuberant hard tackle where the player makes a genuine attempt to play the ball should not be classed in the same way.

Diving and the feigning of injury is the most worrying problem in the game today I believe (excluding off the pitch things such as racism, fan trouble etc). It goes against the very spirit of the game. It is despicable and it undermines everything the game is supposed to be about.


Because that's where I'm not seeing eye to eye with you. I watched
the Chelsea-Barcelona game, and at the end I was full of admiration
for an 18 year old kid whose skill and pluck outshone bigger, stronger,
older and more experienced opponents. You saw a blatant cheater who
put the game in jeopardy.

From what I saw, the game looked good with Messi playing it.

I saw how good Messi was, he is a superb talent (though I think people have been going over the top a little). However, the sending off left me annoyed at both him and the referee who I thought had an awful game.

[comme]

Make-up calls always leave a bitter taste.But comme, we have no idea if the ref was influenced by Messi activities on the ground. If he was, that's poor officiating and where the blame should be directed, not at Messi.

It is essentially irrelevant whether the referee was influenced by the rolling or not. Messi tried to influence the ref, his sly look up before starting to roll was the give away.

If indeed refs are now less focused on sanctioning infractions committed, but are more focused on the aftermath/damage of infractions, isn't that reason enough for players who routinely suffer fouls to embellish? Maybe Messi learned a lesson when the cleats to his knees didn't bring out a yellow in the first place.

The problem is then the referees and I fully agree with that. To earn a foul you either often have to dive, or stop playing and wave your hands. Yet both parties have to hold their hands up, it is primarily I believe the fault of the players in conning refs that has led to this. Equally we need firmer officiating.

Clealry though the aftermath does have an impact. The referee was all set to send Carles Puyol off in the second half, but he was crowded out and seemed to forget about it. The referees are not doing their job properly.

[cordobesenUS]

Outstanding job Messi. Keep them crying my friend, it's music to my ears :) I I wonder, where are all those who said that messi was too young to play in the national team?Messi is the best argentina player at the moment, Riquelme might be decent but doesn't have half the balls this guy has... can't wait to see him against england. Look he is already making cry a rainforest hehehehe.

[ilovefotball]

No doubt Argentina have been boosted of getting the new great player in form of Messi. now they r even more stronger than previously as Messi can play as right wing or left wing, which Argentina were struggling to get the classy player.
If Messi and Riquelme together with Tevez hold their current form they will definitly win WC. look at this squad.


-------Tevez---------crespo------------Messi

-----------------------Riquelme------------------------

--------Maschareno/Demicheles------Cambiasso------

---Heinze------Ayala-----Samuel/Gonzalez-----Janetti


--------------------Leo Franco------------------

terrific line up, it will definitly make any countries sweat thier A**.

And if they are lying with a goal or 2 , they can take one defencive midfielder off and put in Aimar/lucho/Maxi rodriguez/gago and in case of injuries there r many back up players in every field. sergio aguero,deigo milito,cruz,saviola,G. milito,coloccini,and many more.......................

[Sempre]

I sadly haven't seen that tackle I must confess, so
I don't intend to comment on it specifically. Perhaps you can tell me
though what happened to the offender? Was he sent off?

The offender, Riccardo Vanigli of Empoli, was given a yellow card; but
it was his second foul on Totti (10 minutes into the game, mind you)
and it was just the sort of foul FIFA claimed they wanted to ban back
in the 90s--the tackle from behind, the challenge that the attacking
player can't anticipate and can't prepare to take. This one did Totti in,
but Vanigli wasn't red-carded. He played all 90 minutes.

The one point I will make is that Totti is the like the
boy who cries wolf, if you feign fouls and pretend to be hurt, then when
it does happen many people have no sympathy.

In his shoes, you might do the same. As I've already told you this is
the most fouled player in Italian soccer history, and if he occasionally
exaggerates the effect of a foul or goes down easily to draw a free-
kick, these are small sins in comparison to the cynical and harmful
abuse he takes from defenders.

I can't ask you to sympathize with him, that's your call, but if you
really do see what he goes through week in and week out I have to
think you would not call him the 'boy who cries wolf'.

I scoff at the Robbens, the Pireses, the Luis Garcias.
The players who make referees lives impossible by cheating. I used the
boy who cried wolf example with Totti, but it's equally true of Robben,
he feigns injury and goes down all the time. In my opinion, had he gone
down under the challenge of Messi on Wednesday, he would have won
a foul. For once he stayed on his feet and the foul wasn't given.

If people go down as if they are shot at the slightest challenge, how are
the referees to know what is a dangerous foul?

In the Serie A especially, the furbizia (cunning) of the players is so
highly developed that the referees do have trouble distinguishing the
difference between real and simulated, foul and clean challenge, and
this is a problem that runs deep, because, unlike in England, the fans
in Italy are on the side of the furbi, the cunning ones, because at the
root of life in Serie A is the grim reality that two or three clubs have all
the money and power and the rest have to use their wits to survive, to
achieve "salvezza," salvation, meaning avoiding relegation.

The issue is also cultural, but as I don't wish to sound self-loathing,
I'll only say that Italy is a corrupt Catholic country that lacks the
reforming element found in the Anglo-Saxon world. Ideally, though, I
agree with you that the game ought to be more transparent, the
players more honest, the referees more firm.

My point on this is clear: A dangerous and deliberate
foul is unacceptable and deserves a red card, that is the "professional
foul". However, an over exuberant hard tackle where the player makes
a genuine attempt to play the ball should not be classed in the same
way.

Diving and the feigning of injury is the most worrying problem in the
game today I believe (excluding off the pitch things such as racism,
fan trouble etc). It goes against the very spirit of the game. It is
despicable and it undermines everything the game is supposed to be
about.

But here's where I disagree with you and think you're wrong and also
misguided in your sympathies.

You highlight divers as the real criminals of world soccer today. You
mention names like Pires, Robben, and Garcia, all of whom happen to
be attacking players, highly skilled, and capable of doing things that
are harder and more enjoyable aesthetically than that which defenders
do. Earlier you talked about the "professional" foul as a big problem in
today's game, but evidently it ranks lower in your hierarchy of crimes
than the sight of these flair players simulating, diving, or attempting
to influence refs.

And here's the rub: all that is to me a thousand times less offensive
than the maddening favoritism given to defending players in today's
game. Did an offensive player slightly nudge a goal-keeper in the middle
of a goal-mouth incident? God forbid! Yellow card to the attacker, and
a stretcher for the brightly-dressed 'keeper, who (incidentally) is hardly
even a player and is routinely allowed to barrel through attacking players.
Was a forward perfectly in line with the last defender when receiving
a threaded pass from a midfielder that could possibly lead to a goal
scoring chance? Offsides!! Always, and everywhere, the benefit of the
doubt for the defender.

In such an atmosphere, where defenders are heavily favored and are
allowed to tackle from behind and to essentially mug attacking players
without being ejected, it doesn't surprise me that players like Totti get
injured. And, equally, it shouldn't be surprising that offensive players
are going to use their wits to level the advantage given to defenders.
Can you really blame them, given the realities of modern soccer?

I saw how good Messi was, he is a superb talent (though
I think people have been going over the top a little). However, the sending
off left me annoyed at both him and the referee who I thought had an awful
game.

I will forward you a pm that Tp sent me on Messi--a really good piece of
writing on the player, better than anything I could do on the same topic.

[comme]

The offender, Riccardo Vanigli of Empoli, was given a yellow card; but
it was his second foul on Totti (10 minutes into the game, mind you)
and it was just the sort of foul FIFA claimed they wanted to ban back
in the 90s--the tackle from behind, the challenge that the attacking
player can't anticipate and can't prepare to take. This one did Totti in,
but Vanigli wasn't red-carded. He played all 90 minutes.

Again, I didn't see it, but in that case the player should have been sent off. FIFA have been totally inconsistent in their rulings on these matters.


In his shoes, you might do the same. As I've already told you this is
the most fouled player in Italian soccer history, and if he occasionally
exaggerates the effect of a foul or goes down easily to draw a free-
kick, these are small sins in comparison to the cynical and harmful
abuse he takes from defenders.

I can't ask you to sympathize with him, that's your call, but if you
really do see what he goes through week in and week out I have to
think you would not call him the 'boy who cries wolf'.

I don't normally like to bring personal experiences into these discussions, as my own footballing life has little relevance to the top level professional game ... However ;) I am and always have been a creative player, I have been fouled time and again by defenders but I couldn't bring myself to dive or feign injury. If I have my shirt pulled then I might stop playing, because it is the only way to get a decision, but diving is not something I could ever bring myself to do, equally feigning injury. It is inherently dishonest.

In the Serie A especially, the furbizia (cunning) of the players is so
highly developed that the referees do have trouble distinguishing the
difference between real and simulated, foul and clean challenge, and
this is a problem that runs deep, because, unlike in England, the fans
in Italy are on the side of the furbi, the cunning ones, because at the
root of life in Serie A is the grim reality that two or three clubs have all
the money and power and the rest have to use their wits to survive, to
achieve "salvezza," salvation, meaning avoiding relegation.

The issue is also cultural, but as I don't wish to sound self-loathing,
I'll only say that Italy is a corrupt Catholic country that lacks the
reforming element found in the Anglo-Saxon world. Ideally, though, I
agree with you that the game ought to be more transparent, the
players more honest, the referees more firm.

I agree it is cultural. In England there is a widespread loathing of cheating and diving.

There is a story of when Maricio Tarrico came over to England to play for Ipswich, and feigned injury to get an opponent sent off. Rather than congratulating him for his cleverness his teammates castigated him for cheating. It isn't the done thing in England, it goes against the much mythologised "sense of fairplay".

Sadly that seems to be disappearing, some blame the influx of foreigners, but whatever the cause there are now a number of English players doing it as well.

But here's where I disagree with you and think you're wrong and also
misguided in your sympathies.

You highlight divers as the real criminals of world soccer today. You
mention names like Pires, Robben, and Garcia, all of whom happen to
be attacking players, highly skilled, and capable of doing things that
are harder and more enjoyable aesthetically than that which defenders
do. Earlier you talked about the "professional" foul as a big problem in
today's game, but evidently it ranks lower in your hierarchy of crimes
than the sight of these flair players simulating, diving, or attempting
to influence refs.

No I rank the dishonest injury causing foul as worse (just) than feigning injury or diving. To set out to deliberately injure an opponent is an awful thing to do, but to injure a player in a committed tackle is not. Football is a hard game with hard tackles, some will be mistimed, some will result in injury, but that is the nature of the game.

Feigning injury and writhing on the floor makes a mockery of players who are genuinely injured. Alan Smith suffered a horrific injury last week, but he wasn't rolling around.

And here's the rub: all that is to me a thousand times less offensive
than the maddening favoritism given to defending players in today's
game. Did an offensive player slightly nudge a goal-keeper in the middle
of a goal-mouth incident? God forbid! Yellow card to the attacker, and
a stretcher for the brightly-dressed 'keeper, who (incidentally) is hardly
even a player and is routinely allowed to barrel through attacking players.
Was a forward perfectly in line with the last defender when receiving
a threaded pass from a midfielder that could possibly lead to a goal
scoring chance? Offsides!! Always, and everywhere, the benefit of the
doubt for the defender.

I totally agree. A goalkeeper can use his hands, that should be advantage enough. Equally the ruling about "daylight" seems to have been ignored.

I could not agree more on these points.

In such an atmosphere, where defenders are heavily favored and are
allowed to tackle from behind and to essentially mug attacking players
without being ejected, it doesn't surprise me that players like Totti get
injured. And, equally, it shouldn't be surprising that offensive players
are going to use their wits to level the advantage given to defenders.
Can you really blame them, given the realities of modern soccer?

It is not using your wits, it is cheating. It essentially undermines all honest attackers.



I will forward you a pm that Tp sent me on Messi--a really good piece of
writing on the player, better than anything I could do on the same topic.

I appreciate it. I'll reply to that in a PM.

[Sempre]

I agree it is cultural. In England there is a widespread
loathing of cheating and diving.

There is a story of when Maricio Tarrico came over to England to play
for Ipswich, and feigned injury to get an opponent sent off. Rather than
congratulating him for his cleverness his teammates castigated him for
cheating. It isn't the done thing in England, it goes against the much
mythologised "sense of fairplay".

Sadly that seems to be disappearing, some blame the influx of foreigners,
but whatever the cause there are now a number of English players doing
it as well.

............

I totally agree. A goalkeeper can use his hands, that should be advantage
enough. Equally the ruling about "daylight" seems to have been ignored.

We are pretty clear then I think.

As someone who's conscious of the traditions of English football, you
want diving and play-acting cut out, as it goes against the principle of
fair play. I understand and respect that.

I too would like to see less diving and simulating. But globally, across
the board, I think the first priority is for FIFA to get very serious about
violent, dangerous fouls, such as the tackle from behind. I would like to
see it red-carded and I would like to see the game tilted more in favor
of the attacking player, so that close calls on offsides are given to the
forward and that 'keepers aren't such a protected species. (You seem
to agree these are problems currently.)

When the pendulum does swing that way, the attacking player will have
that little extra edge, and it will then become clear that his play-acting
and diving is truly unjustified and inexplicable, at which point a movement
to get cards shown for these things with more regularity will be a perfect
solution to a gnawing problem.

It won't be easy, because, as you say, there are cultural issues involved,
but that should be no obstacle.

I like this business of "fair play," by the way, it is one of the reasons I
keep reading through all of Orwell's journalism and letters, which, to me,
are a little more interesting than his most popular books.

[Siempreconlamecha]

When will people learn to write concisely:confused:

[comme]

When will people learn to write concisely:confused:

It's nice to have a mature, well reasoned debate about these things I think.

[Craps]

yeah, i'm only willing to argue and debate, if i know that the other person knows what they're talking about, and we can have an educated conversation.

i hate the "yeah well ur team ttlly sux bcuz we have da best playerz..."

[Sempre]

When will people learn to write concisely:confused:

How's this for concise? %$#@ off.

:D

[The Double]

There is a story of when Maricio Tarrico came over to England to play for Ipswich, and feigned injury to get an opponent sent off. Rather than congratulating him for his cleverness his teammates castigated him for cheating.

Then Tanno decided that his teammates were little girls, and slapped them all in the face. 'Cause he was cool like that.

[Siempreconlamecha]

No puede ser, leccion de Messi.:mad:
Quien sabe la gravedad:confused:

[bsas]

No puede ser, leccion de Messi.:mad:
Quien sabe la gravedad:confused:

According to the Barça fans, he just pulled a muscle. Nothing serious. Should be able to play their next match.

Ghosh, I think we were all worried;)

[BigSoccer Bot]

Preocupación de Selección: Lionel Messi se lesionó en Barcelona-Chelsea. Los primeros diagnósticos hablan de una contractura o de un pequeño desgarro en los isquiotibiales de la pierna derecha. Hoy habrá precisión. El pibe se fue llorando.

Link To Original Article (http://www.clarin.com/diario/2006/03/08/deportes/d-01154589.htm)

[Leon12]

bsas,

When I saw him limping off I feared the worst!! Especially when you saw he was close to tears but that was because he wanted to stuff Chelsea and shut Moanio up so badly. Glad it's nothing serious. :D

[JuveFE]

he will be out for 1 month with a torn right thigh muscle. but he should make a full recovery.

[bsas]

he will be out for 1 month with a torn right thigh muscle. but he should make a full recovery.

Shite! That's worse than I thought... Should be Ok for our NT, but I wanted to see him shine in the Champions League....