Baseball

[Sapphire]

Quick, dirty, and admittedly biased story of Clemens' career in Boston: brought up as the next big thing, always successful in season but less so in playoffs, still became a fan favorite, had a couple of off years though so Sox GM Dan Duquette pushed him out the door using age as an excuse, Clemens reacts by turning on Red Sox Nation

It's not that he went to the Yankees. I don't hate Johnny Damon or Wade Boggs for doing the same, its a business decision and if the Yankees are paying more, that's life. It's that he turned on the people who made him what he became. That's sad to see from any player.

I actually enjoyed watching him in Houston and hoped he would be back. Although after the way Drayton McLane treated Jeff "Mr. Astro" Bagwell, who knows what effect that had on Clemens.Thanks for the info. And that's a good point about playing for McLane again. Baggie and Biggio WERE the Astros for 10 years -- I know business is business, but it's been harsh recently.

[prymetyme]

why is that all we talk about?
fellowship of the miserable.

Sox fans deserved it more then anyone. Bill Buckner, Grady Little. Tell me any Cubbie moments where the Sox were a shoe in compared to those.

[mhtwins113]

why is that all we talk about?
fellowship of the miserable.

Sox fans deserved it more then anyone. Bill Buckner, Grady Little. Tell me any Cubbie moments where the Sox were a shoe in compared to those.
Sox fans deserved to suffer to 86 more years, all their bitching and moaning about how cursed they were drove me mad. AT LEAST YOU'D BEEN TO A WORLD SERIES (before 2002 :D ).

[prymetyme]

So you'd rather have the world series in your hand, and have the championship roll 2 feet away from the final out between your legs, then not have to deal with that at all?

[mhtwins113]

So you'd rather have the world series in your hand, and have the championship roll 2 feet away from the final out between your legs, then not have to deal with that at all?
John Kasay kicked the ball out of bounds in Super Bowl XXXVIII and basically gifted the Patriots their second ring, yet you don't hear Panthers fans bitching him out every two seconds. Dennis Eckersley gave up that home run to Kirk Gibson, yet A's fans still respect him and don't dwell on that. Shit happens, deal with it. You weren't the only team to ever suffer moments of bad luck.

[Achtung]

Sox fans deserved to suffer to 86 more years, all their bitching and moaning about how cursed they were drove me mad. AT LEAST YOU'D BEEN TO A WORLD SERIES (before 2002 :D ).

Real Sox fans never believed in any curse. It was always more of a media ploy to in crease the "mystique" around the team and its woes. The real curse was decades of inept, often bigoted management and a Boston media that practically drove players out of town.

[Achtung]

John Kasay kicked the ball out of bounds in Super Bowl XXXVIII and basically gifted the Patriots their second ring, yet you don't hear Panthers fans bitching him out every two seconds. Dennis Eckersley gave up that home run to Kirk Gibson, yet A's fans still respect him and don't dwell on that. Shit happens, deal with it. You weren't the only team to ever suffer moments of bad luck.

You forgot the big one for Angels fans--Donnie Moore in 1986 giving up the home run to Dave Henderson with one strike to go. Poor guy committed suicide a few years later... :(

Of course for the Sox, as for the Angels, no one talks about any of the bad stuff anymore. It's just ancient history now.

[mhtwins113]

You forgot the big one for Angels fans--Donnie Moore in 1986 giving up the home run to Dave Henderson with one strike to go. Poor guy committed suicide a few years later... :(

Of course for the Sox, as for the Angels, no one talks about any of the bad stuff anymore. It's just ancient history now.
Yeah believe me, Donnie Moore sucked, just like all the ones I listed for their respective fan bases. But just like my other examples, we didn't carry it around as a Scarlet Letter or as an excuse for our ineptitude, unlike the Red Sox and Cubs who dwell on every single missed strike call as if it's part of some cosmic conspiracy to keep them down.

[Vermont Red]

we didn't carry it around as a Scarlet Letter or as an excuse for our ineptitude, unlike the Red Sox and Cubs who dwell on every single missed strike call as if it's part of some cosmic conspiracy to keep them down.

The Red Sox fans that I know, and I know a lot, don't go around talking about the "Curse" at every opportunity. The media has blown this out of proportion. Most long-time fans deal with the failings of the Red Sox in the proper way; suffering in silence.

[mhtwins113]

The Red Sox fans that I know, and I know a lot, don't go around talking about the "Curse" at every opportunity. The media has blown this out of proportion. Most long-time fans deal with the failings of the Red Sox in the proper way; suffering in silence.
if that's truly the case, then I'm glad to hear it. But I can only go by what I know, and that, obviously, is what the media says.

[Achtung]

Have to agree with VR again--the "Curse" has always been completely blown out of proportion by the media. Same goes for Cubs fans I know, who are always thinking about the future, not crying about the past (especially now that the team seems to have real ambition).

[prymetyme]

John Kasay kicked the ball out of bounds in Super Bowl XXXVIII and basically gifted the Patriots their second ring, yet you don't hear Panthers fans bitching him out every two seconds. Dennis Eckersley gave up that home run to Kirk Gibson, yet A's fans still respect him and don't dwell on that. Shit happens, deal with it. You weren't the only team to ever suffer moments of bad luck.

You cant compare the great history of the Carolina Panthers to the Red Sox.

[prymetyme]

The Red Sox fans dont really go around saying theres a curse. Although for a while though many thought (i was one) that something had to be going wrong. So many times we were so close and so many times we failed. Not to mention that someone said that would happen. It was a crazy coincidence but at the time it was hard to doubt it.

Dont try and compare teams that were founded like 40 years ago in the case of the angles, who never even had any fans until they won the world series. Whenever I went out to California before they won people in Anaheim didnt give a shit. The Carolina Panthers never had a large following either. Its completely different when a whole city is watching a team like Boston, compared to half a some small city in inland North Carolina.

[Achtung]

Its completely different when a five states are watching a team like Boston

FYP..

And again, just to reiterate...

"The fans have always been great to me in Boston. The media made more of the error than the fans did.'' -Bill Buckner

Bah! And the sad thing is that none of it matters anymore. So let's push '46, '67, '75, '78, '86, and '03 just a little further back into history now. We're all in first place on Opening Day. :)

[Stud83]

Same goes for Cubs fans I know, who are always thinking about the future, not crying about the past (especially now that the team seems to have real ambition).

Yeah, it's too bad that "Wait 'till next year" conversations usually start around June :rolleyes:

[yossarian]

FYP..

And again, just to reiterate...

"The fans have always been great to me in Boston. The media made more of the error than the fans did.'' -Bill Buckner

Bah! And the sad thing is that none of it matters anymore. So let's push '46, '67, '75, '78, '86, and '03 just a little further back into history now. We're all in first place on Opening Day. :)

That's an interesting quote from Buckner. By chance do you know when he said it?

The reason I ask is because I distinctly remember an article in the Globe when I was living in Boston (1992-1995) on Buckner. According to the article....he had only recently moved from Boston. He said the reason that he moved was that his kid had started catching flak when he started school. Apparently, other kids (obviously when their parents found out that Buckner's kid was in their child's class) started taunted his kid about Game 6. That was it for him (again according to that story). He didn't mind the slings and arrows aimed at him....but it was too much for his child to have to take.

[prymetyme]

[QUOTE=Achtung]FYP..

"The fans have always been great to me in Boston. The media made more of the error than the fans did.'' -Bill Buckner

QUOTE]

its funny because Boston was to much for him and he had to move to Montana lol

[Achtung]

That's an interesting quote from Buckner. By chance do you know when he said it?

The reason I ask is because I distinctly remember an article in the Globe when I was living in Boston (1992-1995) on Buckner. According to the article....he had only recently moved from Boston. He said the reason that he moved was that his kid had started catching flak when he started school. Apparently, other kids (obviously when their parents found out that Buckner's kid was in their child's class) started taunted his kid about Game 6. That was it for him (again according to that story). He didn't mind the slings and arrows aimed at him....but it was too much for his child to have to take.

I don't have a link to it, unfortunately. Got it a few years back, attributed to Sports Illustrated. I'll see if I can find it later on.

I'm sure he did catch some flak over it, and it doesn't surprise me that he and his family had to move. It's sad that parents would have their kids do something like that, but it doesn't surprise me.

[yossarian]

I don't have a link to it, unfortunately. Got it a few years back, attributed to Sports Illustrated. I'll see if I can find it later on.

I'm sure he did catch some flak over it, and it doesn't surprise me that he and his family had to move. It's sad that parents would have their kids do something like that, but it doesn't surprise me.

No worries. I wasn't doubting the quote.....I was just curious.

[jmartin1966]

What are your thoughts on getting Thome for Rowand? Most fans I've talked to seemed not to like it, but I thought it was a decent deal even if Rowand is supposed to be an up and coming star.

This deal helped the White Sox keep Konerko and, if Thome has a good year, it's a big help to the offense. On the other hand, I think the outfield defense is going to suffer. If the White Sox needed this deal to keep Paul, then it's a good deal. If not, I think it's slightly negative, just have to wait and see.