The 2nd Forward Question: A novel solution?

[TrueCrew]

There has been much discussion about who should partner McBride up top.
Most thoughts tend toward a healthy EJ (I tend to agree), or moving LD up top. If EJ struggles to return to form, and TT does not impress in March, what do we do then? The following thought occurred to me, and it hasn't been discussed much (at least not lately).

Move DMB to be the speed guy next to McBride. He plays up top for PSV. This allows Convey to slot in at LM, and allows Donovan to play in the midfield. Granted, we haven't seen it much from Bruce, but I thought it might be an interesting move if the second striker spot remains unsettled.

It would look like this in a box: diamond RM = Reyna/Dempsey. LM=Convey
--------Keller--------
Dolo--Gooch--Boca/Pope/Gibbs--Lewis
--Reyna---JOB/Mastro----
---Donovan----Convey---
-------BMB----DMB-----

Tell me what you think: interesting or stupid?

[Allamerican74]

There has been much discussion about who should partner McBride up top.
Most thoughts tend toward a healthy EJ (I tend to agree), or moving LD up top. If EJ struggles to return to form, and TT does not impress in March, what do we do then? The following thought occurred to me, and it hasn't been discussed much (at least not lately).

Move DMB to be the speed guy next to McBride. He plays up top for PSV. This allows Convey to slot in at LM, and allows Donovan to play in the midfield. Granted, we haven't seen it much from Bruce, but I thought it might be an interesting move if the second striker spot remains unsettled.

It would look like this in a box: diamond RM = Reyna/Dempsey. LM=Convey
--------Keller--------
Dolo--Gooch--Boca/Pope/Gibbs--Lewis
--Reyna---JOB/Mastro----
---Donovan----Convey---
-------BMB----DMB-----

Tell me what you think: interesting or stupid?

I don't think it will happen though it isn't stupid. I think we'll probably put LD up front and get Obrien on the field or Dempsey on if he continues what he's been doing.

[Bruce S]

I don't think it will happen though it isn't stupid. I think we'll probably put LD up front and get Obrien on the field or Dempsey on if he continues what he's been doing.
how is JOB getting on the field.In a cart??

[spartak-champion]

Interesting. That's exactly what I've been thinking recently about the solution of the problem with the second forward, a partner for McBride. It will happen, I think, at least occasionaly, and would allow us to utilize our strength among midfielders, namely free up space for Convey/ Dempsey, if he proves himself in European friendlies.

[mrliioadin]

some others had mentioned this in other threads and it isn't a bad idea against weaker opponents cause DMB has played up top during the gold cup for example or as someone else mentioned i believe he plays up top on occassion at PSV Eidhoven but that has only ever occured in a 4-3-3 system that i recall. DMB is so damn small he can't eally play inside as a striker in a 4-4-2 needs to. He can't fight for positioning like a "real" striker can and because of that he can't really challenge for 50/50's or headers. There would be places he excells in the position but I think Czech and Italian defenders would figure that matchup out pretty quickly. DMB gets tossed around enough on the perimeter of the attack. Puttin him inside would probably kill him.

Anyone know what he weighs in at now? I know in 2004 he stepped on the field at least once weighing 127 pounds.

[Allamerican74]

how is JOB getting on the field.In a cart??


Probably the same way Reyna will be and how he did in 2002.

[mrliioadin]

Anyone know what he weighs in at now? I know in 2004 he stepped on the field at least once weighing 127 pounds.



Actually I just found it http://ussoccer.com/common/stContent.jsp_16-MNT2006.html ... This puts him at 5'8'' 145lbs. still very tiny for a striker in international soccer in one fo the toughest groups in the cup.

[Dooglas]

this is happening is EJ doesnt return to form and TT magically stops scoring again, althought BA wont pair TT and bmb, just saying. it would be a very good plan B to move DMB up top and have convey or lewis battle it our for Lmid.

cuz moving donovan up top can work but someone has got to be able to control our offense like he does or it wont work.

[TxFan]

It would look like this in a box: diamond RM = Reyna/Dempsey. LM=Convey
--------Keller--------
Dolo--Gooch--Boca/Pope/Gibbs--Lewis
--Reyna---JOB/Mastro----
---Donovan----Convey---
-------BMB----DMB-----

Tell me what you think: interesting or stupid?

definitely interesting. in fact, i think its a really good idea. i don't think bruce will do it though. i think having BMB and DMB paired up front would be an amazing combination. I would go with JOB over Mastro, especially since it looks like JOB should be ready...

nice idea

[sidefootsitter]

Actually I just found it http://ussoccer.com/common/stContent.jsp_16-MNT2006.html ... This puts him at 5'8'' 145lbs. still very tiny for a striker in international soccer in one fo the toughest groups in the cup. 145 was probably after a trip to a buffet ... in any case, Bruce seems comfortable with the Skinny Y but could try a 4-3-3 too...

----four------regular---defenders---

----Dempsey------Reyna/Lewis/JOB--

----------Donovan---------

--Noonan---McBride----Beasley-

which seems a tad on a risky side ...

and here's one even riskier--->

---four---regular-----defenders----

------------Zavagnin-------------

-----Dempsey-------Donovan-----

Noonan-----McBride------Beasley

[TxFan]

----four------regular---defenders---

----Dempsey------Reyna/Lewis/JOB--

----------Donovan---------

--Noonan---McBride----Beasley-



wow. unlikely, but very exciting on paper. :p

[mrliioadin]

Bruce will build his team from the back up starting in net then ironing out his back line then setting his midfield THEN worrying about the strikers. This is how strong teams are built in the modern era. Thats why Landon Donovan got moved to the midfield and DMB is a proven solid wing midfielder. You never take a strong two way player and gamble by putting him in an unfamiliar position in an unfamiliar system when you know they can perform at a more important position. You won't see any proven midfielders up top during the cup for any amount of time. If any midfielder were to move up it would probably be clint dempsey or pat noonan but honestly I'de put Chris Rolfe or Brian Ching up top before i'de use Damarcus or Donovan.

My only complaint about the 4-3-3 is that the U.S. love to attack from the wings... any ball that pops out wide gets served in (in theory) with the 3 man back line and two essentially defensive minded outside middies the crosses come from further away (giving keepers a good chance to read the situation) and there is less depth to the attack. you loose a bit of support when you go with just three in the midfield. I believe they would get less of an offensive push with 3 attackers as opposed to 2.

[TrueCrew]

Thanks for the input.

I wasn't thinking of him spending too much time in the middle, but kind of playing positionally like Henry does: staying mostly outside the box, coming wide to each side, coming back into midfield for some marauding runs, etc.
My little position diagram did not reflect this. Too lazy.

[USA4Life]

Did anyone watch the US Mexico game in Mexico. Beasley was up front with Johnson in the first half. It worked so well that Arena switched things at halftime and moved Donovan up front and Beasley back to midfield.
After the game Arena said we would have been better off with McBride and Johnson together up front.

Beasley should play outside midfield.

As for the formation 4-4-2 is the only one that has ever got results.

[Sean Donahue]

Playing on the left in a three man front line is a bit different than playing as a forward in in a 4-4-2. I'd equate wide forwads offensive duty in a 4-3-3 more to a wingers duty in a 4-4-2. I don't think moving Beasley up top would be a very good option, unless we switch our formation with it.

[mrliioadin]

Actually I think the U.S. played a 4-3-3 the majority of the time at the gold cup... but that was in large part a reserve squad. I think entirely domestic save a couple like Hahnamann and Beas.

I like the 4-4-2 I like beasley at left mid and I think Bruce does too.

[Martin Fischer]

DMB has never impressed as a forward for the USMNT. If this is the way we go, it won't be good for our chances.

[Marko72]

some others had mentioned this in other threads and it isn't a bad idea against weaker opponents cause DMB has played up top during the gold cup for example or as someone else mentioned i believe he plays up top on occassion at PSV Eidhoven but that has only ever occured in a 4-3-3 system that i recall. DMB is so damn small he can't eally play inside as a striker in a 4-4-2 needs to. He can't fight for positioning like a "real" striker can and because of that he can't really challenge for 50/50's or headers. There would be places he excells in the position but I think Czech and Italian defenders would figure that matchup out pretty quickly. DMB gets tossed around enough on the perimeter of the attack. Puttin him inside would probably kill him.

Anyone know what he weighs in at now? I know in 2004 he stepped on the field at least once weighing 127 pounds.

Agree. Which is why I think he's not a striker, particularly not in the World Cup against 3 physical opponents. Beasley's game is a 1v1 game with outstanding speed. He's about a pure a winger as we've got. Winning balls up top and fighting off strong, tough markers (um, can you imagine Beasley vs Nesta? Hello???) just isn't his thing. He can play the wide man in a 4-3-3 but I honestly do not think this is the way to go in Group E. We'll need 4 midfielders for sure IMHO.

[FirstStar]

Beas would be very exciting for us up top, but that's a real waste of half of his talent. He's the best attacking-type mid we have at getting back and playing defense. Putting him too far up towards the goal reduces his obligations to get back (which open up room for overlapping runs, which we will have a LOT of on the left side).

Also, DMB's speed is minimized in smaller spaces-- I think he's more effective when pushed out wider (given more space to run at the goal) or when playing further back as a LM.

Just my opinion.

[nowherenova]

I agree with keeping him out wide. His speed is as important defensively as going the other way. An important player to have against counter-attacking teams (wink).