View Full Version : The American Revolution
nyrmetros
18 Feb 2006, 02:55 AM
Are there any other American Revolution "buffs" here? I hate the word buff, but can't think of any other word right now.
I'm especially interested in the Battle of Long Island/Brooklyn/Manhattan.
Toon³
18 Feb 2006, 03:08 AM
Enthusiast :)
nyrmetros
18 Feb 2006, 03:16 AM
Enthusiast :)
Wow I'm stupid. Good thing I support NUFC in the Prem.
Toon³
18 Feb 2006, 03:57 AM
Wow I'm stupid. Good thing I support NUFC in the Prem.
*Waits for jokes about being stupid and supporting Newcastle*
nyrmetros
18 Feb 2006, 04:28 PM
Sooo.... any takers on this Am Rev thing ??
DoctorD
18 Feb 2006, 05:29 PM
aficionado?
What is it about that particular campaign that especially interests you?
nyrmetros
18 Feb 2006, 06:24 PM
aficionado?
What is it about that particular campaign that especially interests you?
The fact that no one knows about it. The fact that burried in the biggest city in this country was the biggest and costliest battlefield of the entire American revolution. The fact that the Battle of Long Island/Brooklyn/Manhattan set the tone for the entire war. It showed us how ill prepared either side was for a long drawn out engagement, and how the resisdents of NYC had the same mindset in 1776 as the do in 2006..... $$$$$$$
There are tons of reasons why I have picked this particuliar campaign as the most interesting to me that I can't really name them all right now. Your thoughts?
DoctorD
18 Feb 2006, 06:49 PM
Chernov's Hamilton book treats this battle a little. He notes that the British fleet was the largest they had ever yet assembled.
taosjohn
18 Feb 2006, 06:50 PM
Are there any other American Revolution "buffs" here? I hate the word buff, but can't think of any other word right now.
I'm especially interested in the Battle of Long Island/Brooklyn/Manhattan.
Are you asking for a briefing or want to do a reenactment or what? I knew enough about it once that I wandered all over Morningside Heights one 1976 day trying to figure out where events took place...
But I pretty much couldn't tell. They seem to have built a lot of stuff there since the battle for some reason, and paved most of the rest ...
nyrmetros
18 Feb 2006, 07:05 PM
Chernov's Hamilton book treats this battle a little. He notes that the British fleet was the largest they had ever yet assembled.
yea, 400 ships, 30, 000 troops
quite an amazing number when you think about it.
nyrmetros
18 Feb 2006, 07:09 PM
Are you asking for a briefing or want to do a reenactment or what? I knew enough about it once that I wandered all over Morningside Heights one 1976 day trying to figure out where events took place...
But I pretty much couldn't tell. They seem to have built a lot of stuff there since the battle for some reason, and paved most of the rest ...
I've taken occasional forrays into Brooklyn locating where different events took place. Battle Pass in the big park, the Old Stone House, Fulton Ferry, the intersection of Antlantic and Court street, etc...
And it's truly amazing what happened in Wallabout Bay.
Aside from the occasional plague or onument here and there, most of the historic places have been bulldozed over.
russ
19 Feb 2006, 10:02 AM
Don't forget the Saratoga and Mohawk Valley campaigns.If the redcoats had gone throught to link up,we'd all be having afternoon tea .
nyrmetros
19 Feb 2006, 11:29 AM
Don't forget the Saratoga and Mohawk Valley campaigns.If the redcoats had gone throught to link up,we'd all be having afternoon tea .
They are not forgotten, I just haven't the opportunity to do an upstate NY American Revolution tour...... yet......
Im interested. I've done alot of study on Benedict Arnold actually, and its amazing what a great general he was, how much this country owes him, and how complicated his act of treason was. He's not far from being our greatest general of that era (which will always go to GW, deservedly so) and the depths of the villany in which he's held for his treason are evidence at what a hero he was to us.
Really, really interesting character, tells us alot about oursevles at that time, how screwed up our government was, why we even had a revolution at all.
nyrmetros
23 Feb 2006, 02:00 AM
Im interested. I've done alot of study on Benedict Arnold actually, and its amazing what a great general he was, how much this country owes him, and how complicated his act of treason was. He's not far from being our greatest general of that era (which will always go to GW, deservedly so) and the depths of the villany in which he's held for his treason are evidence at what a hero he was to us.
Really, really interesting character, tells us alot about oursevles at that time, how screwed up our government was, why we even had a revolution at all.
From what I recall and please correct my erros....Arnnold felt betrayed by both Congress, and Washington. He was passed over for a higher rank to a fellow who's credentials were not near what Arnold's was..... Washington was very Fond of Arnold, but Arnold was a bit of a loose cannon, something Washington did not want in his army. There were fellows who outranked Arnold who fled to the British..... but because Washongton felt so bretrayed by Arnold (Washington was crushed actually), that Benedcit's name became synonomynous with treason. If anyone were to read about Arnold's action during the Canada campaign in Montreal, there was no questioning Arnold's bravery and love of country. I think Arnold went to the British just to spite Washington, irregardles of Arnold's political opinion.
Your thoughts, and please correct my errors.
IntheNet
23 Feb 2006, 08:43 AM
Are there any other American Revolution "buffs" here? I hate the word buff, but can't think of any other word right now...
We call them "Rev Warriors" at combined reenactments; they're the guys with wooden canteens that leak badly!! 'Have lifelong interest in American Revolution studies but my field of expertise lies in later Civil War period... nonetheless I was exposed to some archeological efforts in the 1980s at Isle de Valcour (Valcour Island) and at Ft. Ste. Anne site in upstate NY/VT on Lake Champlain, where Benedict Arnold in 1776, before his traitorous times, checkmated Maj. Gen. William Howe with smaller fleet of ships; classic naval strategy and bluff... Island was again center stage in 1777 Battle of Plattsburg...love to read about that period... the digs revealed some critical clues to overall strategy and findings went to Lake Champlain Maritime Museum (http://www.lcmm.org/). Research was by some first-rate historians and I learned a great deal then about pivotal importance of Lake Champlain, particularly upper reaches of lake and Missisquoi Bay, to overall strategies of both armies during Revolution... Rev War reenactors don't seem as die hard as CW reenactors and are generally fewer, but you run into some astute and scholarly historians; I spoke to some learned souls doing some university-sponsored archeological efforts at Valley Forge and they knew their stuff... there are some full-time Rev War historians at Fort Ticonderoga in NY that lecture that are worth hearing...
bungadiri
23 Feb 2006, 08:50 AM
Im interested. I've done alot of study on Benedict Arnold actually, and its amazing what a great general he was, how much this country owes him, and how complicated his act of treason was. He's not far from being our greatest general of that era (which will always go to GW, deservedly so) and the depths of the villany in which he's held for his treason are evidence at what a hero he was to us.
Really, really interesting character, tells us alot about oursevles at that time, how screwed up our government was, why we even had a revolution at all.
I think it was Kenneth Roberts (?) books Arundel and A Rabble in Arms that focused on Benedict Arnold prior to his treason. I loved those as a kid. Anyway, he certainly supported (albeit through historical fiction) the argument that Arnold was a brilliant general who benefited the American cause far more than he ever hurt it.
taosjohn
23 Feb 2006, 10:01 AM
From what I recall and please correct my erros....Arnnold felt betrayed by both Congress, and Washington. He was passed over for a higher rank to a fellow who's credentials were not near what Arnold's was..... Washington was very Fond of Arnold, but Arnold was a bit of a loose cannon, something Washington did not want in his army. There were fellows who outranked Arnold who fled to the British..... but because Washongton felt so bretrayed by Arnold (Washington was crushed actually), that Benedcit's name became synonomynous with treason. If anyone were to read about Arnold's action during the Canada campaign in Montreal, there was no questioning Arnold's bravery and love of country. I think Arnold went to the British just to spite Washington, irregardles of Arnold's political opinion.
Your thoughts, and please correct my errors.
Better minds than ours have sought to understand...
My own take is that Arnold was indeed a bit of a hothead and careerist, sort of a landbound John Paul Jones. Washington had such a constant effort to establish a tradition of command that he couldn't keep Arnold around, yet had such a pressing need for men of action and energy that he couldn't waste him either. The colonial luck with retaining strong points had been awfully poor, and he decided to send Arnold in to try to make one solution out of two problems... and created a worse one.
But Arnold had I think had honestly convinced himself that a war administered by Congress could not be won and that the colonies were better off losing asap than drawing out the pain... and he paid the price for being wrong.
KevTheGooner
23 Feb 2006, 11:10 AM
But Arnold had I think had honestly convinced himself that a war administered by Congress could not be won and that the colonies were better off losing asap than drawing out the pain... and he paid the price for being wrong.
Yes...he is buried in exile from his rightful land. He was from Norwich, CT which is right near where I live...and he is a very divisive, yet somewhat rehabilitated, figure in these parts.
nyrmetros
23 Feb 2006, 02:55 PM
We call them "Rev Warriors" at combined reenactments; they're the guys with wooden canteens that leak badly!! 'Have lifelong interest in American Revolution studies but my field of expertise lies in later Civil War period... nonetheless I was exposed to some archeological efforts in the 1980s at Isle de Valcour (Valcour Island) and at Ft. Ste. Anne site in upstate NY/VT on Lake Champlain, where Benedict Arnold in 1776, before his traitorous times, checkmated Maj. Gen. William Howe with smaller fleet of ships; classic naval strategy and bluff... Island was again center stage in 1777 Battle of Plattsburg...love to read about that period... the digs revealed some critical clues to overall strategy and findings went to Lake Champlain Maritime Museum (http://www.lcmm.org/). Research was by some first-rate historians and I learned a great deal then about pivotal importance of Lake Champlain, particularly upper reaches of lake and Missisquoi Bay, to overall strategies of both armies during Revolution... Rev War reenactors don't seem as die hard as CW reenactors and are generally fewer, but you run into some astute and scholarly historians; I spoke to some learned souls doing some university-sponsored archeological efforts at Valley Forge and they knew their stuff... there are some full-time Rev War historians at Fort Ticonderoga in NY that lecture that are worth hearing...
I checked out http://www.brigade.org/ but alas I did not see a Militia unit for Queens, NYC.