Donovan in comparison to world class midfielders

[NoSix]

Somewhat bemused by the wide variance in opinions in the "Yallop said" thread, I thought it would be instructive to compare Landon Donovan's international goal scoring record to that of "world class" midfielders as defined by the midfielders nominated for FIFA 2005 Player of the Year consideration.

While I haven't adjusted the data for strength of schedule, based on past experience I would anticipate such adjustments to be small, affecting only the second digit in the goals per game (GPG) figures tabulated below:


Player Team Caps Goals GPG
Ballack GER 61 29 0.475
Rnldnho BRA 60 27 0.450
Donovan USA 76 25 0.329
Zidane FRA 98 28 0.286
Kaka BRA 32 11 0.344
Nedved CZE 83 17 0.205
Beckham ENG 86 16 0.186
Ronaldo POR 29 9 0.310
Lampard ENG 38 10 0.263
Riqlme ARG 24 5 0.208
Gerrard ENG 39 6 0.154
Deco POR 24 2 0.083
Essien GHA ? ? --


In terms of demonstrated goal-scoring prowess, at least, Ballack and Ronaldinho stand out above the rest. Donovan's record is comparable to Zidane's, and then there is a sizable drop-off to Kaka, Nedved, Beckham, and the rest. I couldn't find a reliable source of data for Essien.

[sidefootsitter]

Sheva is a forward. Donovan has played forward.

Most others are mids.

[NoSix]

Sheva is a forward. Donovan has played forward.

Most others are mids.

OK, edited out Shevchenko. Outside of the World Cup, Donovan has played primarily in the midfield for the US. If anyone has calculated how many midfield caps and goals he has, I'd be happy to update accordingly.

[Scoobs]

Nice to get some numbers out there, NoSix.

I'm sure LD would come out nicely in the assists ranking
as well.

[mschofield]

How does a 23 year old have 76 caps? That really is impressive. What does that project out to, 200?

[VOwithwater]

Somewhat bemused by the wide variance in opinions in the "Yallop said" thread, I thought it would be instructive to compare Landon Donovan's international goal scoring record to that of "world class" midfielders as defined by the midfielders nominated for FIFA 2005 Player of the Year consideration.

While I haven't adjusted the data for strength of schedule, based on past experience I would anticipate such adjustments to be small, affecting only the second digit in the goals per game (GPG) figures tabulated below:


Player Team Caps Goals GPG
Ballack GER 61 29 0.475
Rnldnho BRA 60 27 0.450
Donovan USA 76 25 0.329
Zidane FRA 98 28 0.286
Kaka BRA 32 11 0.344
Nedved CZE 83 17 0.205
Beckham ENG 86 16 0.186
Ronaldo POR 29 9 0.310
Lampard ENG 38 10 0.263
Riqlme ARG 24 5 0.208
Gerrard ENG 39 6 0.154
Deco POR 24 2 0.083
Essien GHA ? ? --


In terms of demonstrated goal-scoring prowess, at least, Ballack and Ronaldinho stand out above the rest. Donovan's record is comparable to Zidane's, and then there is a sizable drop-off to Kaka, Nedved, Beckham, and the rest. I couldn't find a reliable source of data for Essien.


Donovan in most matches does not play offensive mid he plays withdrawn striker.

When Reyna is at games he is the offensive mid.

[DiscoWarrior11]

Donovan playing domestically for most of his career has enabled him to receive so many caps already. He manages to play in all the US home friendlies, and travels abroad in other games... and has been in the last 2 qualifying campaigns, and I think every tournament in between. Plus, has he ever been injured.

There's also the thankful fact that Arena first capped him at a relatively young age (and his early success). I could easily see him getting 200 caps, especially if he stayed in MLS.

Is he the US's all-time assist leader yet? I remember reading a post somewhere... I know he had been close to Cobi Jones' number, but wasn't sure if that was the number to beat.

[Scoobs]

Reyna and O'brien have missed so many games that Donovan
has played in the midfield most of the time.

[dsp87260]

...
Is he the US's all-time assist leader yet? I remember reading a post somewhere... I know he had been close to Cobi Jones' number, but wasn't sure if that was the number to beat.

He's tied with Cobi for the assist record now (22) and 3rd behind Wynalda (34 goals) and McBride (29 goals) for the all-time goals record. (Landon's got 25.)

I'm putting my money on Landon breaking Wynalda's record even before McBride.

Edit: He's only behind Wynalda for the all-time points leader title also (with McBride in 3rd behind them).

Wynalda, Eric.........84pts (34g, 16a), 106caps
Donovan, Landon....72pts (25g, 22a), 76caps
McBride, Brian........68pts (29g, 10a), 90caps
Moore, Joe-Max......62pts (24g, 14a), 100caps
Jones, Cobi............52pts (15g, 22a), 164caps

(from All-Time Leaders (http://www.ussoccer.com/common/stContent.jsp_16-TMNT30.html))

[DiscoWarrior11]

I'm putting my money on Landon breaking Wynalda's record even before McBride.

I'm with ya on that bet.

Thanks for the stats.

[dsp87260]

I'm with ya on that bet.

Thanks for the stats.

My pleasure.;)

[sinner78]

While I haven't adjusted the data for strength of schedule, based on past experience I would anticipate such adjustments to be small, affecting only the second digit in the goals per game (GPG) figures tabulated below:
.

yeah ,list which opposition donovan scored his goals against.
Is Donovans 25 goals against the likes of Canada ,El Salvador ,etc... comparable to goals by a player such as Ronaldinho who has notched up goals against the very best in the biggest games?

[frenil]

yeah ,list which opposition donovan scored his goals against.
Is Donovans 25 goals against the likes of Canada ,El Salvador ,etc... comparable to goals by a player such as Ronaldinho who has notched up goals against the very best in the biggest games?

4 goals against the pinko cubans (in one game). Quality opposition, they are.

[Bruce S]

4 goals against the pinko cubans (in one game). Quality opposition, they are.
Ronaldinho plays Venezuela, and Bolivia.Not a lot better.

[mattjo]

4 goals against the pinko cubans (in one game). Quality opposition, they are.

Kind of like Ballack's 4 against Malta, or other goals against Faroe Islands, Iceland, Albania, Northern Ireland (2)

Nedved's international goals: Belarus, Latvia, Estonia, Malta, Iceland, etc. In fact, against the "big name" sqauds championsed by many as true signs of quality, he has scored a total of one goal against Italy in 1996.

Donovan does have several goals against weaker teams, but he also has goals against Mexico, South Korea, Poland, and Paraguay, teams which have qualified for multiple cups during that same period. Don't suppose that all those other players's scoresheets are against England or Germany or Argentina every time. The US doesn't consistently face as many top quality teams as our counterparts in Europe, but that doesn't mean that the European squads don't play as many weak teams as the US does.

All players have scored against weaker opponents.

[sinner78]

Donovan does have several goals against weaker teams,

several?? id wager that at least 18 of his goals were against bog standard teams .somebody put up a full list of the opposition and if it was exhibition or full international .and then do the same for the other players on that list.
then we'll see who has the most impressive record.


In those 75 games he has no doubt faced many top sides .
Be interesting to see how many times he hit the net against the better outfits.

[mattjo]

several?? id wager that at least 18 of his goals were against bog standard teams .somebody put up a full list of the opposition and if it was exhibition or full international .and then do the same for the other players on that list.
then we'll see who has the most impressive record.


In those 75 games he has no doubt faced many top sides .
Be interesting to see how many times he hit the net against the better outfits.

I would agree with you about 18 being against "bog" teams; however, the same is true of both Nedved and Ballack. Your post seems to suggest that the majority of the goals from the others are against top notch teams. Also, just out of curisoity, what qualifies as a "bog" team?

[superdave]

Nice stats.

Now let's have the eternal debate about how to count PKs.

:D


All players have scored against weaker opponents.
Nope, only Americans not named DaMarcus Beasely* ever score against weak opponents.

*Eddie Johnson used to be a member of this club but he got injured, so now he also scores against weak teams.

:eek: :)

[NoSix]

somebody put up a full list of the opposition and if it was exhibition or full international .and then do the same for the other players on that list.

Somebody? If you are so concerned on this point, why don't you do it?

[NoSix]

Now let's have the eternal debate about how to count PKs.


I've already "won" that debate and moved on, how about you? :D