Defense and Midfield - Core, Bubble, Picks

[SamsArmySam]

The goal of this thread is to come up with Arena's 23 players for June if he had to choose right now.

Let's assume for the purposes of this thread that the roster slots for keeper (Keller, Hahnemann, Howard) and forward (McB, EJ, Wolff, TT) have settled.

So frame the defense and midfield pool together and drop players into two buckets: CORE players and BUBBLE players. And for the BUBBLE guys, who do you think Arena will PICK? 16 positions open.

Project out injury status however you think it will shake out.

My analysis:

CORE (12)
D--Dolo, Gooch, Boca, Pope, Hejduk
D/M--Lewis
M--Beasley, Dempsey, Reyna, Mastroeni, Donovan, Convey

BUBBLE and *PICK (4)
D--*Dunivant, Pearce, Gibbs, *Berhalter, *Spector
M--O'Brien, *Zavagnin, Ralston, Noonan, Rolfe

Reyna and Mastroeni will recover from their injuries.
O'Brien won't. Bruce needs deep midfield cover, and Zavagnin has shown he is the best option for that role.

Gibbs won't recover or won't be sharp enough coming back from injury. We need another central defender, ideally left-sided, who can man mark a striker out of the game. Our other leftie man-marker is Berhalter, who also brings experience + Germany familiarity + on-field leadership.

One of Dunivant or Pearce have shown enough that they can hold down left back, and Bruce likes having a true left back (think back to Arena's comments on Dolo). Dunivant goes because he's more experienced than Pearce and has shown well in the recent two friendlies. Even if this decision goest to Pearce, it doesn't really change much. This is the purest competition in camp.

This now gives Bruce the luxury of moving Eddie Lewis back into midfield. And it's not a problem fitting all of our left mids on the field because Beasley and Convey have played on both sides for their club teams and done fine.

So there's one more slot. Sitting with 7 in D, 8 in midfield, we need a defender. The last slot goes to a young, athletic, versatile defender who has shown great form in the past couple weeks: Spector.

So the 23 look like:

Keller, Hahnemann, Howard,
Dolo, Hejduk, Gooch, Pope, Boca, Berhalter, Dunivant, Spector
Beasley, Dempsey, Reyna, Mastroeni, Donovan, Zavagnin, Convey, Lewis
McBride, Johnson, Wolff, Twellman

Conclusions:

Injury status on Gibbs and O'Brien will determine everything. Anyone know when is the last date for roster selection?

[Shackleton]

Anyone know when is the last date for roster selection?

Officially, it's May 26, but I've read a quote from Arena suggesting that he would name the roster in mid-May. I suspect Arena was referring to those going to camp instead of the official roster selection because I can't see any reason to turn in the official roster early.

[SamsArmySam]

May 26. This one's going down to the wire.

[Davids26]

I think Gibbs is on the road to rediscovering his form.

But until he goes 90 for ADO, he should be considered a bubble player.

Other than that spot-on, in my book.

[Chowderhead]

Defensive bubble: Berhalter, Gibbs, Dunivant. (I would select Dunivant; and I'm not saying that one of the three would make merely that if I were choosing he would be the first that I'd pick and then maybe the others could fight out the last spot).

Midfield bubble: Lewis (yes), O'Brien (yes), Noonan. (I would go with Noonan who is more suited to the possession game. O'Brien's health make him a question mark but his strength is his versatility. Lewis? How many guys do you need out there? I'm not sold on him as left back. I'd take Convey and Noonan over him). I have Zavagnin as core, btw. Such a faceless yet competent player must be included.

There are no bubble players up top. Twellman is in. Ching is gone. They'll roll the dice on Johnson. Wolff has been there, combines well and spreads a defense.

[flyerhawk]

They were saying on GolTV that Armas may be back soon. Does he have any chance of making the squad?

[Chowderhead]

They were saying on GolTV that Armas may be back soon. Does he have any chance of making the squad?

Why doesn't Arena just forfeit all three game and then hang himself? Come on.

[Davids26]

I agree.

[flyerhawk]

Why doesn't Arena just forfeit all three game and then hang himself? Come on.

I wasn't suggesting that he should be on the team. I have no idea where he stands and based on that I would imagine he shouldn't make the team. I was simply repeating what the GolTV guys said.

[Woodrow]

Good call on the core players:

CORE (12)
D--Dolo, Gooch, Boca, Pope, Hejduk
D/M--Lewis
M--Beasley, Dempsey, Reyna, Mastroeni, Donovan, Convey

But, my bubble players and picks will come out slightly different.

BUBBLE and *PICK (4)
D--Dunivant, Pearce, Conrad, *Gibbs, Berhalter, *Spector
M--O'Brien, *Mastroeni, Zavagnin, Ralston, Noonan, Rolfe, *Olsen

First of all, I don't think we'll take 5 central defenders to the cup, unless Boca is going to double up, in which case Spector gets dropped. I also think that Lewis will go as the top left back, partly because Convey and Beasely are locks in midfield. Dunivant has played better; but I like Pearce more to be the darkhorse as a left back. I just think we are loading up too much on defenders, outside mids if we take Pearce/Dunivant, too.

I also think that O'Brien misses the cup unless he gets healthy within the next month. He will need time to get back into fitness and a good run of games to get sharp. Assuming that he won't (and it pains me to make that conclusion), Mastroeni is his replacement.

Olsen may be the guy Arena takes as a utility mid. He's one of Arena's boys from way back and he is playing as well as anyone on the fringe. Its a tough call for #23 on the roster since Ralston, Noonan, O'Brien and Zavagnin all bring qualities like versatility, teamwork and veteran leadership. But none except O'Brien has World Cup experience. It's toss-up.

[Martin Fischer]

...My analysis:

CORE (12)
D--Dolo, Gooch, Boca, Pope, Hejduk
D/M--Lewis
M--Beasley, Dempsey, Reyna, Mastroeni, Donovan, Convey

I would move Pope and Hejduk to the "Bubble" list. Both have helped themselves in recent games and injuries to others has helped them. But Hejduk faces good competition in Albright and Spector and will have to continue to outperform them. Pope has to prove he can hold up under the wear and tear of playing regularly.

...BUBBLE and *PICK (4)
D--*Dunivant, Pearce, Gibbs, *Berhalter, *Spector
M--O'Brien, *Zavagnin, Ralston, Noonan, Rolfe

...Gibbs won't recover or won't be sharp enough coming back from injury. We need another central defender, ideally left-sided, who can man mark a striker out of the game. Our other leftie man-marker is Berhalter, who also brings experience + Germany familiarity + on-field leadership.

I disagree that it is probable that Gibbs won't come back from injury and play well. It is possible, but likely? His inclusion depends on fitness -- if he can get back as expected, he will make the squad and possibly start.

...One of Dunivant or Pearce have shown enough that they can hold down left back, and Bruce likes having a true left back (think back to Arena's comments on Dolo). Dunivant goes because he's more experienced than Pearce and has shown well in the recent two friendlies. Even if this decision goest to Pearce, it doesn't really change much. This is the purest competition in camp.

Please provide evidence that BA likes to have a purt left back. His record certainly doesn't reflect that. Dunivant was exposed some defensively against Japan, hopefully that was an aberration.

...This now gives Bruce the luxury of moving Eddie Lewis back into midfield. And it's not a problem fitting all of our left mids on the field because Beasley and Convey have played on both sides for their club teams and done fine.

Really? Why would BA want to move Lewis back into midfield where he plays an attacking position already coveted by Beasley, Dempsey, Convey, Noonan and maybe even Donovan? Why would Arena be looking for failure when Lewis is the only guy on the roster who has played left back well against real opposition? And finally, I really don't think Arena is looking to lose Lewis' ability to cross out of the left back position.

...So there's one more slot. Sitting with 7 in D, 8 in midfield, we need a defender. The last slot goes to a young, athletic, versatile defender who has shown great form in the past couple weeks: Spector.

BA has not shown much interest in form limited to a "couple" of weeks.

[evanpemsocr]

Reading this thread, I got to thinking how hard this is to pick the 23. This is a really good thing, we are gonna have to leave some really good players off of the roster. even four years ago we didnt have this big a problem, we pretty much knew who Arena was gonna take, but now honestly I have no idea. Shows a lot for mls and for us soccer in general.

[Lionel Hutz]

Ok...I'll play along.

If BA had to choose right now:

CORE (9)
D--Dolo, Gooch, Boca, Pope
D/M--Lewis
M--Beasley, Reyna, Donovan, Convey

BUBBLE (7)
D-- *Hejduk, Dunivant, Pearce, Gibbs, *Berhalter, Spector, *Conrad
M-- *Mastroeni, *Dempsey, *O'Brien, *Zavagnin, Ralston, Noonan, Olsen

So, if he HAD to choose RIGHT NOW, I think he would:
1) gamble on JOB and Mastroeni being healthy
2) not gamble on Gibbs being ready/in-form
3) take Zavagnin over Olsen
4) take Dempsey over Ralston
5) feel really bad about leaving Noonan and Olsen off the roster

So, my if-Bruce-had-to-choose-as-of-mid-February roster*:

Keller, Hahnemann, Howard
Dolo, Gooch, Boca, Pope, Lewis, Hejkuk, Berhalter, Conrad
Beasley, Reyna, Donovan, Convey, Mastoeni, O'Brien, Dempsey, Zavagnin
McBride, Johnson, Twellman, Wolff

*I'm willing to bet that AT LEAST 3 of the guys on this roster won't be on the final roster.

[Bob Morocco]

I don't think Dunivant is as likely as some other bubble players. Without an injury I don't think he has a shot. Lewis is the clear starter, if he gets hurt Bruce has Convey and Boca, maybe 3 in the back, as options and Spector for competition. The only way I see Dunivant making the roster without an injury is if Spector sucks it up and Bruce intends to use DMB on the right side.

[EVS]

As I see the defense shake-out, it will look like a six-way competition for two spots (the five locks in the initial post seem solid to me but I think BA will want a spot for another pure defensive midfielder, given that Mastro is the only lock at that position and there are no real backups).

Gibbs
Conrad
Berhalter
Dunivant
Pearce
Spector

I don't see the need for Dunivant or Pearce. First, Hejduk and Lewis both play left back; Boca can play there in a pinch (neither the Czechs nor the Ghanians play speedsters out wide). Of the guys on the bubble, Spector and Gibbs also can play outwide left if necessary.


I don't see Spector either. He hasn't that good when he's suited up for the nats and I think we have fine cover at right back too -- Dolo and Hejduk. It would be nice if we had another option (say, if we have to play hejduk on the left and dolo is tired/hurt or something) but it's not the most pressing need and I'm sure someone (mastroeni? reyna?) could be pulled in in a real pinch.

So, I have it down to Conrad, Berhalter and Gibbs for two spots. If Gibbs is healthy he's in. And I think, contra most assumptions here, Conrad will beat out Berhalter. Greg brings a vocal presence, but Conrad is a better athlete. But I could see it going either way.

The only problem with this -- we have too many central defenders. Boca, Pope, Gibbs, Gooch and Conrad. I wish one of them played defensive midfield. I could see Conrad/Berhalter sacrificed for another midfielder.

At Midfield, using the same core group as the first post, I think there are two to three spots left:

O'Brien is a certainty if healthy. If he's one of them, and there's only one other spot, I think it will go to Zavagnin. We need a Mastro back-up because we never play without a destroyer. I don't like Kerry's game that much, but I don't see who else. If this scenario develops, I think we are a little light on the right (we'd probably push Donovan out there at the top of a box, or play Wolff as a backup to Dempsey), but otherwise alright. If there's another spot because we toss Conrad/Berhalter aside, I think it goes to Noonan. Tricky player, and, if Beasley plays wide right, will provide cover for Convey. Also, and I think importantly, will provide another option up top. Although I think the spots are filled, we could definitely use a few more option at forward.

If O'Brien can't go, that changes a lot. We will definitely need another central midfielder and probably two. Zavagnin and, I hate to say it, Olsen (or a recovering Rico Clark). This is a serious problem because none of these guys is really at the level we'd like to have in the world cup. But, oh well, not much you can do if you rely on a guy who has been healthy for about 4 months out of the last 4 years.

[jacksup]

FWIW, here's my take.

CORE (11)
D: Dolo, Gooch, Boca, Gibbs, Pope
D/M: Lewis
M: Dempsey, Reyna, Donovan, Mastroeni, Beasley

BUBBLE and *PICK (5)
D: Dunivant*, Pearce, Hejduk, Berhalter*, Spector*, Conrad
M: O'Brien*, Zavagnin, Ralston, Noonan, Convey*, Gaven

[SamsArmySam]

Please provide evidence that BA likes to have a purt left back. His record certainly doesn't reflect that. Dunivant was exposed some defensively against Japan, hopefully that was an aberration.
One thing this exercise taught me is that everything either falls into place, or falls apart, based on the injury status of a few key players. But to your point above...

When Cherundolo was a newcomer on the squad and Arena was asked in a press conference what he thought about him, he said with a combination of pleasure and sarcasm: "Well, he's a right back!" The inference being that there weren't any other pure right backs in the squad, and Arena really liked that about Dolo. (Sorry, don't have the link.)

I believe we are currently in the same situation now on the left side. Lewis has played his entire career in the midfield, and now we're converting him to left back. He may be our best option come June at the position, but he may still have some challenges in 1. understanding how to take up good defensive positions in concert with the centerbacks, and 2. having enough pace to keep up with attackers.

The goal we gave up against Germany in WC02 came off a free kick because Eddie had to foul a German about to get by him. That has always worried me about Lewis as a LB, and that was four years ago.

Dunivant wasn't perfect in the Japan match, but he may be close enough to Lewis at LB that Bruce looks instead to move Lewis into the midfield (where he had a few goals in qualifying) and to use his remaining roster slots differently.

EDIT (forgot the punchline): "And he's a left back!"

[morrissey]

FWIW, here's my take.

CORE (11)
D: Dolo, Gooch, Boca, Gibbs, Pope
D/M: Lewis
M: Dempsey, Reyna, Donovan, Mastroeni, Beasley

BUBBLE and *PICK (5)
D: Dunivant*, Pearce, Hejduk, Berhalter*, Spector*, Conrad
M: O'Brien*, Zavagnin, Ralston, Noonan, Convey*, Gaven

Just wanted to point out that there is no way that Dempsey is ahead of Convey on the midfield pecking order. No way.

james

[Celo's Bicycle]

McBride Johnson
Twellman Wolff

Beasley O'Brien Mastroeni Donovan
Convey Reyna Zavagnin Dempsey

Lewis Pope Onyewu Cherundolo
Hejduk Boca/Berhalter/Gibbs Hejduk

Keller
Hahnemann
Howard

(I double-listed Hejduk just to show the positional thinking.
Conrad or Spector if no Gibbs. Noonan if no O'Brien)

[swedust]

Tell you what, if Bruce had to choose right now, I question seriously whether Howard goes. But I'll leave that aside for now.

CORE D
'Dolo, Gooch

Lewis (D/M)

CORE M
LD, DMB, Convey

If I understand the thread's premise, choosing TODAY, that's really it for me as to who's inclusion is unassailable.

So, let's see, that leaves me with 10 spots left. Since it's me, not Bruce, I fill out this roster like so:

D PICKS (at time of posting, Albright, Gibbs still out injured)
Pope, Spector, Berhalter, Hejduk, Bocanegra

M PICKS (at time of posting, Maestro, Reyna & JOB still out injured)
Dempsey, K-Z ...oh, man, with those three not available this starts to become extremely experiemental in midfield... Olsen, Noonan, Carroll

Yikes. Thankfully, prognosis good for Reyna and pretty good for Maestro in the real-world time frame.