If only the REVs felt this way....

[Medeiros]

If only the REVs felt this way....I ran across this on soccernet. There is an article about Liverpool and how they have 3 huge games coming up (a premiership, FA cup and CL match)....ENJOY! Benitez says...

"Arsenal is a very important game," the Spaniard said. "But Manchester United is the FA Cup and Benfica is the Champions League - if you lose those last two you are out.
"However, if we lose to Arsenal, we might get the chance to get the points back later in the season. Of course we want to win all three, and I prefer to have this problem rather than not have it."

I now this is a major topic on these boards, so before the replys start coming in i know that the USopen Cup doesnt equal the FAcup and same goes for The CCC but the principle remains.

One more thing, 3 points in an MLS season is even less "important" cosidering we have the playoffs

[patfan1]

Unfortunately the Revs have made it clear that they value one much more than the others. Whether or not we, as fans, like it, is irrelevant.

[REVS FAN 1]

I now this is a major topic on these boards, so before the replys start coming in i know that the USopen Cup doesnt equal the FAcup and same goes for The CCC but the principle remains.

One more thing, 3 points in an MLS season is even less "important" cosidering we have the playoffs

I agree with you and Rafa! And have to believe that SN really believes the same!

Except the fact that I believe that the USOC and the CCC DO EQUAL the FA Cup and Champions League in the United States...

That is what we have...and it is what you make it! If teams don't take it as such it will never grow....

As for the last part, the Gals showed us just how important the MLS regular season is:rolleyes:

[patfan1]

As for the last part, the Gals showed us just how important the MLS regular season is:rolleyes:

Hell, we've kinda proven that the last few years ourselves. Both good and bad.

The MLS regular season means nothing. We all should know this. The goal is just to qualify for the playoffs. You deal with it from there.

[Medeiros]

I agree with you and Rafa! And have to believe that SN really believes the same!

Except the fact that I believe that the USOC and the CCC DO EQUAL the FA Cup and Champions League in the United States...

That is what we have...and it is what you make it! If teams don't take it as such it will never grow...

I Agree with what ur saying, I just meant in terms of prestige. But yes, the USopen is my FA cup and the CCC is my CL.

[KaptPowers]

Except the fact that I believe that the USOC and the CCC DO EQUAL the FA Cup and Champions League in the United States...


Just minus 85% of the money and interest.


That is what we have...and it is what you make it! If teams don't take it as such it will never grow....


The league has to make more of it, US Soccer has to make more of it, but that leads us back into the "How much does MLS's marketing suck" discussion and I have to be somewhere in 20 minutes.

[Winds350]

Except the fact that I believe that the USOC and the CCC DO EQUAL the FA Cup and Champions League in the United States...

By definition perhaps.

But keep in mind that the Champions League is a massive financial gain for the clubs, due to highly attended matches and large TV contracts. CCC, on the other hand, seems to be a financial drain. If they played at Gillette, how many people would be there? How much are they getting for the TV rights?

Even the FA cup has some financial benefit to the top clubs from the TV rights, although it's mainly the lower tier clubs that can get a big payday by progressing through. For the Rev's? Do they get ANYTHING out the Open Cup other than another games experience for some players? Does an Open Cup championship mean higher attendance the next year? Make more from (pay less for) TV games the next year?

[patfan1]

By definition perhaps.

But keep in mind that the Champions League is a massive financial gain for the clubs, due to highly attended matches and large TV contracts. CCC, on the other hand, seems to be a financial drain. If they played at Gillette, how many people would be there? How much are they getting for the TV rights?

Basically, it's hard to argue with this of course. But riddle me this ... ;) ... if we play Club America in the next round, and the game (and I'm starting to doubt this more and more) is at home, would you not expect to see a large crowd? Even if it is just Mexican fans?

Even the FA cup has some financial benefit to the top clubs from the TV rights, although it's mainly the lower tier clubs that can get a big payday by progressing through. For the Rev's? Do they get ANYTHING out the Open Cup other than another games experience for some players? Does an Open Cup championship mean higher attendance the next year? Make more from (pay less for) TV games the next year?
IIRC, not that it's a lot, but the winning team takes $100k for the USOC Championship. Higher attendance ... honestly, who knows. And yes, I mean that. Do you not believe that if we were to put up a good effort each and every time we played out at Ludlow that maybe some of those fans would be willing to make the 1.5 hour drive (I believe it would be) to the Boro? It might not add hundreds or thousands, but it's an add to what we're currently getting. Plus there is a little bit of prestige associated with it. And it would add infinitely more hardware than we currently have. ;)

[REVS FAN 1]

The money isn't there because the interest isn't there....

Now, the bigger problem/debate why is there no interest in soccer and specifically the USOC and CCC?

Is it because the majority of the current soccer fans do not know much if anything about these tournaments?? Has US Soccer/MLS done enough to market these games/tournaments to grass roots soccer??

Or does it not even matter because there is not enough interest in soccer in the US to support all these different games/tournaments anyways??

Is US Soccer/MLS happy to be a fill in/fifth rate sport that parents can bring their kids to in between baseball, basketball and carryball games???

Who is US Soccer/MLS marketing to?? Are they marketing to anyone:confused:

Are they relying on Bruce Arena to win the World Cup for them???

[Winds350]

Basically, it's hard to argue with this of course. But riddle me this ... ;) ... if we play Club America in the next round, and the game (and I'm starting to doubt this more and more) is at home, would you not expect to see a large crowd? Even if it is just Mexican fans?

How do you define large? Would you expect more than for the average MLS home game, for example? And how many teams in the competition would you expect that for?

Actually, I kind of wonder how the CCC works out for the other countries involved. Better/worse/typical attrndance? Is it a spcial TV deal with the rights sold through CONCACAF? For that matter, who pays for the expenses, team travel, etc? Anyone know?


IIRC, not that it's a lot, but the winning team takes $100k for the USOC Championship. Higher attendance ... honestly, who knows. And yes, I mean that. Do you not believe that if we were to put up a good effort each and every time we played out at Ludlow that maybe some of those fans would be willing to make the 1.5 hour drive (I believe it would be) to the Boro? It might not add hundreds or thousands, but it's an add to what we're currently getting.

Okay, I'll give you tens more, but not hundreds. ;) What do you think the average boost in attendance would be for a) the supporters shield? b) MLS Cup? I'm kind of guessing that anything other than MLS Cup is pretty much a wash financially, if not an expense. Could be wrong, but there should be some numbers available from other Open Cup winners. And we all know how the first Supporters Shield winners did. Not too mentions the sixth. Or the tenth.


Plus there is a little bit of prestige associated with it. And it would add infinitely more hardware than we currently have. ;)

Well, there is that..... Don't get me wrong, I'd love for them to win some hardware. But I can understand the business reasons for approaching the other competitions the way they do. And I don't think the Rev's themselves can do that much to change things. I think it's just the way the American sports scene is. I'm really curious to see how the Baseball World Cup works out, for example.

[patfan1]

How do you define large? Would you expect more than for the average MLS home game, for example? And how many teams in the competition would you expect that for?
Any of the Mexican teams still alive, I'm sure we'd have more than the average attendance for. I wouldn't be shocked to see 20k at a Club America/Revs match for example, were it to happen.

Actually, I kind of wonder how the CCC works out for the other countries involved. Better/worse/typical attrndance? Is it a spcial TV deal with the rights sold through CONCACAF? For that matter, who pays for the expenses, team travel, etc? Anyone know?
Great questions.

Okay, I'll give you tens more, but not hundreds. ;) What do you think the average boost in attendance would be for a) the supporters shield? b) MLS Cup? I'm kind of guessing that anything other than MLS Cup is pretty much a wash financially, if not an expense. Could be wrong, but there should be some numbers available from other Open Cup winners. And we all know how the first Supporters Shield winners did. Not too mentions the sixth. Or the tenth.

Honestly, I have no idea how much winning MLS Cup, the USOC or the Shield will help with attendance. What's making me curious right now is how much is the new season ticket deal going to help with attendance?

And it really is tough to say, since there were times when teams won the double/triple? I'd argue that most of the very successful franchises (DC, Chicago, SJ and LA) in this league are the ones drawing the best (obviously SJ is the one that doesn't fit into the most category). But not only have those same teams won MLS Cup, they've also each won the USOC or the Shield (or both).

Then again, please remember that SJ's average attendance the last few games of last year blew away ours...

Well, there is that..... Don't get me wrong, I'd love for them to win some hardware. But I can understand the business reasons for approaching the other competitions the way they do. And I don't think the Rev's themselves can do that much to change things. I think it's just the way the American sports scene is.
There is definitely that. But as a fan, I just want to see them win something. I understand the business side, probably better than many others here, but that doesn't preclude me from wanting to see them lose $500k (or whatever) if that means they win the USOC or the CCC or whatever.

I'm really curious to see how the Baseball World Cup works out, for example.
As am I actually. But the more I'm hearing ... the more it's "Last player to bail on the Baseball World Cup, please shut off the lights."

[Winds350]

The money isn't there because the interest isn't there....

So if the interest isn't there, the Revs should put more into these competitons because????????

Now, the bigger problem/debate why is there no interest in soccer and specifically the USOC and CCC?

There is plenty of interest in soccer, just not for obscure tournaments that don't fit in with how American sports other than soccer have been organized.

Is it because the majority of the current soccer fans do not know much if anything about these tournaments?? Has US Soccer/MLS done enough to market these games/tournaments to grass roots soccer??

How about, because to the majority of American sports fans the leagues below the top pro league consist of teams owned by the top league to train their prospects? Or because to the majority of the American sports fans, the top US league is the best in the world, why would they bother watching them play teams from another league?

Or does it not even matter because there is not enough interest in soccer in the US to support all these different games/tournaments anyways??

I don't think there is enough interst in any sport in the US to support different tournaments.

Is US Soccer/MLS happy to be a fill in/fifth rate sport that parents can bring their kids to in between baseball, basketball and carryball games???

Who is US Soccer/MLS marketing to?? Are they marketing to anyone:confused:

How about, they are doing the best they can to get people to go to MLS games, and syphoning off resources (funds, time, media favors) to promote non-MLS tournaments is counter productive?

And for that matter, the two times I have heard the Rev's receive frequent air time were the 2002 MLS Cup, and the unbeaten run to start last year. Which seems to be a pretty good indication of what it takes to get publicity. In the immortal words of Al Davis, "Just win, baby"

Are they relying on Bruce Arena to win the World Cup for them???

In Bruce We Trust. Actually, there's another good question. Was there any effect to MLS revenues from the US performance in the 2002 World Cup? Was attendance up right after the WC finished? TV ratings? Anyone know? Tough to know how much of an impact it had on, for example, the 60K to see the MLS final.

[metblack85]

If only the REVs felt this way....I ran across this on soccernet. There is an article about Liverpool and how they have 3 huge games coming up (a premiership, FA cup and CL match)....ENJOY! Benitez says...

"Arsenal is a very important game," the Spaniard said. "But Manchester United is the FA Cup and Benfica is the Champions League - if you lose those last two you are out.
"However, if we lose to Arsenal, we might get the chance to get the points back later in the season. Of course we want to win all three, and I prefer to have this problem rather than not have it."

I now this is a major topic on these boards, so before the replys start coming in i know that the USopen Cup doesnt equal the FAcup and same goes for The CCC but the principle remains.

One more thing, 3 points in an MLS season is even less "important" cosidering we have the playoffs


Medieros, you must be quite a handsome young lad :)

[IRguy]

One more thing, 3 points in an MLS season is even less "important" cosidering we have the playoffs

I have to disagree here, having home field advantage last year not having it the year before was the difference between making the cup and not making the cup, IMO. Liverpool dose not have a chance at winning the EPL they are just qualifying for next years CL.

Actually, I don't really agree with most of your post, but this debate has been had already.

[Medeiros]

I have to disagree here, having home field advantage last year not having it the year before was the difference between making the cup and not making the cup, IMO. Liverpool dose not have a chance at winning the EPL they are just qualifying for next years CL.

Actually, I don't really agree with most of your post, but this debate has been had already.

Yes, Liverpool has no chance of winnining the EPL but they r fighting for a direct CL spot. Whats more valuable a direct CL spot or playing ur first round playoff game 2 at home compared to game 1. And yes, home field means the ECF is at home and thats gives you the advantage if you make it that far.
Point is 3 points for Liverpool right now, is alot more important then 3 points for the REVs in the longterm scheme of things

[rkupp]

1. Virtually ALL of the Revs revenue is from MLS games.

2. The *casual* fan who makes up the bulk of the home attendance wants to choose from games on the wall calendar, not a tournament game that gets added in midseason IF the team wins a total-goals home/away in the previous round or meets some totally unheard of opponent.

3. *Every* regular season point is not necessary, EXCEPT that in 2003 and 2004 our seasons ended BECAUSE we had to win 1-off playoff games on the road because we hadn't secured home team advantage by grabbing as many points as possible.

4. We could certainly play more subs during the MLS games to allow us to put more effort into CCC and USOC, EXCEPT that after making good playoff runs in 2002, 2003 and 2004 with basically .500 records, many people in THIS forum were irate about how the Revs were screwing the ticket-paying customer for regular season games by pursuing playoff-centered strategies.

5. According to the Rev coaches (both Nicol and Mariner), they believe that playing our home game in Bermuda is our BEST chance to win this round of the CCC. Now, anyone can disagree (and clearly many do), but unless you think Nicol and Mariner are liars, they ARE trying their best to win the series.

6. It's an interesting *theory* that winning titles like USOC and CCC will translate into significantly better attendance, but I have yet to see any convincing argue to show that that is likely to happen. Does anyone really think the Benfica and Sporting fans discussed in the other thread really know/care who wins the USOC or whether we advance a couple of rounds in CCC and play some Mexican teams at home?

7. The familiar *invest* in the game to bring in more fans and $$ has been proposed, but the reality is that MLS is still in a very tight bottom-line mode. They have made some concessions on the revenue side (lowering ticket prices, eliminating parking fees) and have yet to set any benefit from it. That makes it much LESS likely that the organization will kick in MORE $$ to invest in promotions.

[peabrainedidiot]

6. It's an interesting *theory* that winning titles like USOC and CCC will translate into significantly better attendance, but I have yet to see any convincing argue to show that that is likely to happen. Does anyone really think the Benfica and Sporting fans discussed in the other thread really know/care who wins the USOC or whether we advance a couple of rounds in CCC and play some Mexican teams at home?

.

well written.
my only comment personally, #6, I don't expect to do anything for attendence, it's more of a street cred issue for the league maybe the hope is multiple comps will add legitimacy and then in turn.....fans
the open cup has an incredable history. if only pople talked about it