Roger Federer

[johno]

Actually, the same can be said of Federer who had innumerable break points but in FO'07 and Wimbledon'08 and failed miserably.

Not going on past here. FFS! I pointed out that Federer was far below his best and played quite poorly and that these matches were not good examples of his play. He's done far better against the same oppo and different in recent enough times. You a hater.

[JuveFE]

Not going on past here. FFS! I pointed out that Federer was far below his best and played quite poorly and that these matches were not good examples of his play. He's done far better against the same oppo and different in recent enough times. You a hater.

I thought Roger didn't look good after the 1st set but after that I thought he was great but Nadal was better. 27 unforced errors is amazing in a 5 set match! I thought going in the final 2 sets, you saw some of the best tennis played all year. I'm not going to say that Nadal has past Federer because that has not happened yet but I will say that he's getting very close.

Nadal is what 22? And already has 5 GS. Thats pretty good even if 4 of them are at the French. And you can see how good he's getting.

[Dark Savante]

OK, am I going nuts or does Ramón Calderón have a twin?

At Wimbledon there was an identikit sitting next to him.. one was more tanned than the other. Am I imagining this?

---

I thought Federer let himself down, he played poorly. Nadal was playing the best he can, Federer wasn't close to it.

But far dues to Nadal for winning. Good game. Not the all-time best people are claiming, imo.

For that, two people have to be playing at their absolute best - that was not the case in this match and it was precisely because Federer wasn't 100% that made it such an enthralling game.

[cr7torossi]

2006 FO -- Federer loses in a competitive final
2007 FO -- Federer loses in a less competitive final
2008 FO -- Federer gets thrashed

2006 Wim -- Nadal loses in a competitive final(except the 1st set)
2007 Wim -- Nadal bottles the 5th set to lose in an epic
2008 Wim -- Nadal wins

It has nothing to do with Federer; Nadal's natural progression both technically with a much improved serve, a new angled forehand from the baseline, much more variation on his backhand and cutting down on his backswing as well as tactically by continuously playing on Federer's backhand and attacking the 2nd serve much better has everything to do with it.

If anything, Nadal has been carrying a knee injury. It will be interesting to see whether Djokovic continues his progression on faster courts and who wins the USO.

[Dark Savante]

2006 FO -- Federer loses in a competitive final
2007 FO -- Federer loses in a less competitive final
2008 FO -- Federer gets thrashed

2006 Wim -- Nadal loses in a competitive final(except the 1st set)
2007 Wim -- Nadal bottles the 5th set to lose in an epic
2008 Wim -- Nadal wins

It has nothing to do with Federer; Nadal's natural progression both technically with a much improved serve, a new angled forehand from the baseline, much more variation on his backhand and cutting down on his backswing as well as tactically by continuously playing on Federer's backhand and attacking the 2nd serve much better has everything to do with it.

If anything, Nadal has been carrying a knee injury. It will be interesting to see whether Djokovic continues his progression on faster courts and who wins the USO.

You don't need stats or anything else. Your own eyes should tell you that Federer was way below par. Unforced errors tell you this. I've never seen him make so many.

Nadal has definitely improved, but you can't gauge his bar as surpassing Federer's until they're both going at it 100% not the lopsided show we saw on Sunday.

[cr7torossi]

You don't need stats or anything else. Your own eyes should tell you that Federer was way below par. Unforced errors tell you this. I've never seen him make so many.

Nadal has definitely improved, but you can't gauge his bar as surpassing Federer's until they're both going at it 100% not the lopsided show we saw on Sunday.

Well, that's because you have never seen him being attacked continuously(not implying Nadal is not an attacking player) on his backhand.

Bollettieri's tennis handbook has this quote : "You put yourself under less pressure on each shot when you hit with the intent to force the opponent rather than hit to produce the outright winner." If this happens throughout the game, you are more likely to miss shots because of the sheer mental pressure of either trying to hit a winner(thus piling up the unforced error count) or trying to stay in the point(and then messing up when an opportunity comes up).

There were a couple of horrible returns of (second) serve on breakpoints by Federer but Nadal bottled a fair few chances of his own, as is to be expected in such a significant match.

[Dark Savante]

Well, that's because you have never seen him being attacked continuously(not implying Nadal is not an attacking player) on his backhand.

Bollettieri's tennis handbook has this quote : "You put yourself under less pressure on each shot when you hit with the intent to force the opponent rather than hit to produce the outright winner." If this happens throughout the game, you are more likely to miss shots because of the sheer mental pressure of either trying to hit a winner(thus piling up the unforced error count) or trying to stay in the point(and then messing up when an opportunity comes up).

There were a couple of horrible returns of (second) serve on breakpoints by Federer but Nadal bottled a fair few chances of his own, as is to be expected in such a significant match.

I'm sorry, no. Making simple drop shots over the net with your opponent miles away has nothing to do with what you're saying.

That would be fair comment on rallies, but when there's open winners there he can hit in his sleep and isn't making them, it's more than that.

Federer badly needed rain to stop play, imo. What I noticed is that he hates not being in control - once he gets upset he makes lots and lots of mistakes that is unusual for him. In a way that comes because Nadal can get him so riled up, but, and it's a big but; he can do far, far better than that and it'd be ridiculous to say he can't. That's why the match was good but not great to me - it wasn't two players at 100% going at it like fury - it was Federer moping about and sulking and getting riled way too easily and Nadal battering him for it.

I fully expect them to have some 100% games that will be classics in future, however.

[Twix]

For all you tennis heads, when does a player generally reach his peak? And when do they usually retire?

[Dark Savante]

For all you tennis heads, when does a player generally reach his peak? And when do they usually retire?

For women it's very young, about 23ish to 25/28 and for men it varies wildly. Some are young prodigies like Becker and McEnroe and others are just solid from the time they announce themselves in the top percentile and retire before they truly decline.

You don't see many 30+ tennis champs in singles.

[cr7torossi]

Even (unforced) errors are forced more often by the play before it especially against someone who hits shots with depth, power and heavy spin. We will go back-and-forth on this so lets leave it to that:)

I fully expect them to have some 100% games that will be classics in future, however.

I actually think Federer and Djokovic are more likely to have classics in the future on faster surfaces. My personal favourite match in recent years is the semifinal between Federer and Safin in AO' 05.

I think Djokovic is as talented as Safin but with a Federer-esque constitution, should lead to some very exciting game.

Between Federer and Nadal, the gap on clay has widened even further and if Wimbledon continues to slow down and if Nadal continues to improve, imo he should be dominant on Wimbledon <injuries withstanding>

For all you tennis heads, when does a player generally reach his peak? And when do they usually retire?

Women : 21 - 25 (these days)
Men : 23 - 28

The decline in men though is very much dependent on the individual, the women just decline pretty rapidly (because a newer generation of power hitters come up and kinds of committments pop up).

[Dark Savante]

Even (unforced) errors are forced more often by the play before it especially against someone who hits shots with depth, power and heavy spin. We will go back-and-forth on this so lets leave it to that:)



I actually think Federer and Djokovic are more likely to have classics in the future on faster surfaces. My personal favourite match in recent years is the semifinal between Federer and Safin in AO' 05.

I think Djokovic is as talented as Safin but with a Federer-esque constitution, should lead to some very exciting game.

Between Federer and Nadal, the gap on clay has widened even further and if Wimbledon continues to slow down and if Nadal continues to improve, imo he should be dominant on Wimbledon <injuries withstanding>


I don't think a 'gap' has been abridged on grass. Agree with you about clay - Federer will not win a French whilst Nadal is fit and competing in it.

As for the classic matches - there'll be a fair few between them on grass. I haven't seen much of Djokovic, tbh.

[Dark Savante]

For all you tennis heads, when does a player generally reach his peak? And when do they usually retire?

you need to empty pms.

[Twix]

you need to empty pms.
done

[Sapphire]

It's kind of interesting that there have been a few men in recent years who have done well after 30. Agassi and Ivanisevic come to mind.

[billyireland]

you need to empty pms.
done

:eek: Eeeeeeeeewwwwwwww!

[johno]

Goran!!!! One of my fav of all time.

[Sapphire]

Goran!!!! One of my fav of all time. Now, THAT was a great Wimbledon final. Goran v. Rafter 2001

[sdotsom]

I used to be a big fan of Juan Carlos Ferrero, but dude has vanished after his win at the French. He had some injuries and chicekn pox, and has kind of been scrabbling outside the elite for the last few years.

[johno]

Now, THAT was a great Wimbledon final. Goran v. Rafter 2001

Yup. I'm betting you're a big Guga fan too?

[Sapphire]

Yup. I'm betting you're a big Guga fan too?Not particularly. :) I'm a Boris Becker girl from way back (although he's losing me with these rediculous commercials for poker sites). Actually, Ivanisevic was my older sister's favorite player when we were growing up, so my knowledge of all things Goran is mainly through her. And his winning Wimbledon like he did is, imo, one of the great stories in tennis.