Man United NSR Politics thread

[Howard Zinn]

You guys should watch Journeys with George -- It's a documentary shot during his campaign to win the primary in 2000, before he was a front-runner. He's really relaxed and shows that he is intelligent (all his smarminess is there, and he kinda comes off as a perv, imo).

I actually think that he speaks so slowly at times, not cause he's too stupid to think of something, but he's deliberately slowing down and picking southern-sounding idioms (he doesn't really talk that way; he learned it in Texas cowboy-businessman culture). He's actually a political genius. I mean, he ran as a Washington outsider--his daddy was the frickin president and head of the CIA forever. He shirked service during vietnam by joining the national guard (which, if you don't know, alot of 'fortunate sons' did and were allowed to do deliberately to avoid combat), and he manages to gain the support of military families over his war-hero purple-eart-winning opponent -- it's brilliant!!


Exactly.

[littleman]

Exactly.

Still don't make a difference to the fact that he's a poof :(

In case you guys don't know, most of the world either dislike or really hate America. Sorry to say, but when I was living in the student hostel in Singapore and there were plenty of students from China there.. I was dozing off one evening and I heard cheering and excitement, which woke me up...

It was 9/11.

[Numquam Moribimur]

Still don't make a difference to the fact that he's a poof :(

In case you guys don't know, most of the world either dislike or really hate America. Sorry to say, but when I was living in the student hostel in Singapore and there were plenty of students from China there.. I was dozing off one evening and I heard cheering and excitement, which woke me up...

It was 9/11.




the world has hated america for a long time ....so dont go blame it all on bush


and for the students cheering and all ....if fcuk all happens to there country you know who they will go crying to 1st

[littleman]

the world has hate america for a long time ....so dont go blame it all on bush

That is true, but to my best knowledge, Bush is pushing it further, and he and his administration exemplifies precisely why the world hates America.

Myself? I'm quite terrified :eek: Although I'm still hoping to go to the US for my graduate studies.

[Howard Zinn]

the world has hate america for a long time ....so dont go blame it all on bush


Absolutely correct NM. I always love the argument that Bush made people hate America. We've been hated by alot of people for a long time. The people of the world weren't exactly in the streets with their American flags whipping through the breeze when Clinton was in office.

[SirManchester]

So you are saying that Cheney makes most of the decisions, yet you seem to be more than willing to throw all of those problems mentioned, including 9-11, at the feet of Bush? :confused:

Ummmm, "stupid" people have Fox News and CNN these days, and those channels just happen to keep up with the President's activities overseas quite alot. It wouldn't make much sense to adapt a stage persona for one speech a year.

Those are all things that he wanted to get done (except for 9-11, which I can't believe you have the audacity to throw at the feet of any one person, unless you are trying to make a different point than what I am getting, which I hope you are). He did them for his own selfish reasons, because they help out people like himself, namely rich people. You don't seem to understand that the President doesn't make decisions to help everyone, he makes decisions to help the wealthiest 1 percent of people in this country. He plays to poor people so he can help the rich.

Cheney is supposed to advise him, however it's up to him to make the final call right? It's not all Bush.

First of all, let's remove FOX NEWS, that's not a reliable source, in fact its the opposite, and what do you mean adapt a stage persona? If this idiot thing is indeed a gimmick enforced in the U.S. only, why use it overseas and make himself and his country look stupid? How is that professional?

I happen to think the Bush admin. was involved in 9-11, but let's not get into that because I doubt you'd know where to get started on that (no offense) And no sh!t he's not doing whats best for the country but the country is eating it up, why do its citizens continue to stand behind him?! He's obviously not having Americans' best interests at heart.

[Numquam Moribimur]

I happen to think the Bush admin. was involved in 9-11,


oh my i would love to hear that one :eek:

[StrikerCW]

I believe Bush has made some horrible descisions. Maybe not so much the man himself, but this administration (although I do not agree that he shouldn't be to blame for alot of the bad decisions, ie saying that Cheney has more power or whatever was said). The Second Gulf War was supposed to kick our economy into gear according to the admin, however nothing such has happened. I believe it is coming back up on its own right, definatelly not on apart of the war.

Bush did not make people hate America, it has been that way for a good 100 years ever since Teddy Rose was in power bullying South American countries and with his little corelary to give the finger to the Europeans. Also, the trouble we are in today anywhere in the world can be traced back to OUR doings in the past. Every single thing that has gone wrong has been the error of a President in the past IMO. Well most of the bad things at least.

Lastly, I do not think Bush is an idiot. He did graduate from from Yale and Harvard (albiet in the business schools, but thats beside the point) so he is not a stupid man. He is just not a good leader.

[mhtwins113]

Let me jump in here and say he gets waaaaaay too much stick. Yeah I'm a Republican, I'll get that out of the way promptly so no one has any illusions of where I'm coming from. Bush has made many decisions that I'd call... iffy. This "guest-worker" renaming of amnesty pisses me off like no other. Increasing Medicare benefits even when the AARP came out against it, saying that it was too costly and would put too much emphasis on mandatory spending.

But on foreign policy and terror related issues, I have absolutely no problems with the way he's conducted business. Let's not forget that these same douche-bag Democrats bashing Bush now for Iraq are the same bastards that fell over sucking Clinton's dick when he bombed Baghdad in 1998 when Saddam was skirting UN inspections. Let's not forget that these same douche-bag Democrats bashing Bush now for Iraq are the same bastards that wouldn't back up their criticisms by calling for immediate withdrawl when it was brought up and voted on in the House, for fear of PR backlash.

For all the negative pub Bush gets because the Democrats are feeding lies to the media, and through that to the American people, it's these same morons who are all talk and no action. If nothing else, Bush is a man with solid ideals and enough confidence in them to take action that he feels is best for the American people. Since the American people elected him because they trusted him more than any Democrat, he should have the ability to lead the country in the direction he feels he's been entrusted to lead it in.

This is not a blanket apology for Bush; I've already stated a couple of the many qualms I have with things he's done. However, I think he's doing a far better job than he's being given credit for and people need to look past their biases to see that.

Debate on.

[StrikerCW]

Obviosuly you have been watching 'In Plane Site', SM. And while it contained an interesting premise, what you speak of is treason and I don't think that it is correct anyway.

[SirManchester]

the world has hated america for a long time ....so dont go blame it all on bush


and for the students cheering and all ....if fcuk all happens to there country you know who they will go crying to 1st

the world hasn't hated America for a long time. It dominated the 20th century and worked its way up to have the world under its umbrella, until Bush, who pushed that notion so far off, he was responsible for the biggest turn around opinion from outside of America.
Trust me, you really need to understand what his admin. has been doing and unlike Americans, the majority of the rest of the world is well educated and informed on politics, and no, if anything goes wrong anywhere else no one will come to America first, I can guarantee you that.

[Achtung]

He did graduate from from Yale and Harvard (albiet in the business schools, but thats beside the point)

Why, you sound like an engineer, Striker. ;)

[SirManchester]

Obviosuly you have been watching 'In Plane Site', SM. And while it contained an interesting premise, what you speak of is treason and I don't think that it is correct anyway.

I dont know "in plane site"

[Howard Zinn]

Cheney is supposed to advise him, however it's up to him to make the final call right? It's not all Bush.

First of all, let's remove FOX NEWS, that's not a reliable source, in fact its the opposite, and what do you mean adapt a stage persona? If this idiot thing is indeed a gimmick enforced in the U.S. only, why use it overseas and make himself and his country look stupid? How is that professional?

I happen to think the Bush admin. was involved in 9-11, but let's not get into that because I doubt you'd know where to get started on that (no offense) And no sh!t he's not doing whats best for the country but the country is eating it up, why do its citizens continue to stand behind him?! He's obviously not having Americans' best interests at heart.


This makes no sense. You just said that Cheney makes most of the decisions, yet now Cheney only advises Bush, who now has the final call? Consistency please.

Bush goes overseas. Cameras follow. People in America see Bush overseas on their televisions, thanks to said cameras. Everytime he is in front of a camera, the acting commences. Why does it matter to him or anyone else if the country looks "stupid"? It's completely professional because it is his job to be a politician and get votes for his party. That's what he does.

I'm not touching 9-11 because that's just stupid shit waiting to happen.

Oh my, what a discovery!!! Bush isn't doing what's best for a majority of Americans. Call the press. Headline news. Exactly which politician is doing what's best for the majority of people? And again, you fail to realize the political genius the man possesses. He plays people like a fiddle.

I'm out for the night. I'll continue my rumbling tomorrow.

[StrikerCW]

We bombed Bagbad in 1998? I think you are referring to Kosovo, which by the way was a much cleaner transition of power than the Iraq one.

And honestly, would John Kerry have been any better than Bush? I think not, he himself is a waffler on all issues anyway. Bush at least stands up for himself, you are right Mike (mth).

Al Gore OTOH, I think he would have been just as good if not much better than Bush had he won the 2000 election.

[Achtung]

unlike Americans, the majority of the rest of the world is well educated and informed on politics

SM, I respect your opinion and am as critical of this country and its leaders as anyone, but don't you think its time to get off the "everything and everyone in America is bad/stupid" high horse? :rolleyes:

[mhtwins113]

Cheney is supposed to advise him, however it's up to him to make the final call right? It's not all Bush.

First of all, let's remove FOX NEWS, that's not a reliable source, in fact its the opposite, and what do you mean adapt a stage persona? If this idiot thing is indeed a gimmick enforced in the U.S. only, why use it overseas and make himself and his country look stupid? How is that professional?

I happen to think the Bush admin. was involved in 9-11, but let's not get into that because I doubt you'd know where to get started on that (no offense) And no sh!t he's not doing whats best for the country but the country is eating it up, why do its citizens continue to stand behind him?! He's obviously not having Americans' best interests at heart.
What exactly would you call a reliable source? CBS News with its constant yet futile attempts to discredit Bush? Perhaps NBC News who has reporters blurting out on air how horrible the job is being done in Iraq? Maybe CNN whose lone registered Republican on-air reporter is Candy Crowley?

Just because FOX News represents the right doesn't mean it should be discarded, just like any of the other news channels should be taking off the air becuase they represent the left for all intents and purposes.

I won't even get into that crazy conspiracy theory about 9/11. And if enough people were able to elect him for a second term even with all the supposed "mistakes" of his first term, then wouldn't you say that those people feel that their interests ARE being adequately represented?

[littleman]

Since the American people elected him because they trusted him more than any Democrat, he should have the ability to lead the country in the direction he feels he's been entrusted to lead it in.


You do a great deal in simplifying elections to a matter of "trust" and a demonstration of the supposed faith the country has in him. You know its not true. The Bush election campaign was by far one of the dirtiest in recent American history.. the smear campaign and ads designed entirely to attack John Kerry.

He won, but that's about all you can conclude from it.

[StrikerCW]

I dont know "in plane site"
Its a video made by some people that shows the plane going into the towers and a slight blink of light coming out from in front of the plane, looking like an explosive. It is insinuated in the video that maybe (although the commentator makes sure you know he isn't saying anything about anyone but just pointing things out) someone planted explosives on the plane before hand to aid in the explosion. Or somesuch/

[mhtwins113]

We bombed Bagbad in 1998? I think you are referring to Kosovo, which by the way was a much cleaner transition of power than the Iraq one.

And honestly, would John Kerry have been any better than Bush? I think not, he himself is a waffler on all issues anyway. Bush at least stands up for himself, you are right Mike (mth).

Al Gore OTOH, I think he would have been just as good if not much better than Bush had he won the 2000 election.
Yes we did bomb Baghdad in 1998, it was a two-day campaign with air strikes aimed at killing Saddam, much like the operations we just carried out in Pakistan trying to kill Ayman al-Zawahiri, Al Qaeda's #2 operative behind Osama.

Al Gore is also the same person who was heard saying in a speech the past week that we have 10 more years to live until global warming makes the Earth uninhabitable. But I heard that from Rush Limbaugh and KFI's John and Ken (local radio personalities), so take it as you will.