Man United NSR Politics thread

[SirManchester]

how are these millions you speak of different from different warring tribes in Africa? is it religion there too? no, its poverty/economic conflict which has fueled hate. just because alot of warring people happen to be Muslim doesn't mean that all muslims are violent or are warring people... the majority of muslims are non-violent.



Whoever said all Muslims are violent? I just said that religion is as much a fuel as the economic conditions in the area. Do you honestly believe that fundementalists have no faith whatsoever? that they don't believe in thousands of years worth of religion? You gotta be kidding me, and again, I'm strictly talking about the Islamic fundementalists here.

[Vermont Red]

Catholicism is a subset of Christianity. All Catholics are Christians, not all Christians are Catholics.

[yossarian]

Catholicism is a subset of Christianity. All Catholics are Christians, not all Christians are Catholics.

It used to be Catholicism = Christianity. We, after all, did get the party started doncha know.

Then some of these uppity people got all mad about little things like tithing, divorce, the Inquisition.........;)

[MtP07]

http://www.prestonandsteve.com/pictures/1206.jpg

[StrikerCW]

What do you guys think about those guys sentenced to death for heroin smuggling?

[johno]

Whoever said all Muslims are violent? I just said that religion is as much a fuel as the economic conditions in the area. Do you honestly believe that fundementalists have no faith whatsoever? that they don't believe in thousands of years worth of religion? You gotta be kidding me, and again, I'm strictly talking about the Islamic fundementalists here.

the problem I have with that is that there are idiots who've got a goal and use religion as a means to garner support for their cause, but its not really about religion. It shouldn't be Islamic fundamentalists, but rather fundamentalist Islamics because if they lived in the US it would be Christianity that they'd use and its been proven time and time again that despite what fundamentalists will say, the core of whatever their religion they are using is against their actions.


@ Striker, haven't heard about that... gotta link?

[StrikerCW]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4715504.stm

Basically, 2 or 3 guys were trying to smuggle some 8 keys of heroin from Bali (in Indonesia) into Australia. They recruited some other guys to be 'm ules' and strap some of it on their bodies to get it into the country. The Austrialian police were tracking them for a while and let the Indo police know about it, and they made the arrest in Indonesia. The controversy arises when you realise that drug offenses call for anything from 20 years to the death penalty in Indonesia. Some parents of the (dumbass) kids are suing Australian now because their police 'let them to be exposed to the death penalty' or somesuch. I think its ridiculous and makes perfect sense since the transactions occurred on Indo soil..

[Sapphire]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4715504.stm

Basically, 2 or 3 guys were trying to smuggle some 8 keys of heroin from Bali (in Indonesia) into Australia. They recruited some other guys to be 'm ules' and strap some of it on their bodies to get it into the country. The Austrialian police were tracking them for a while and let the Indo police know about it, and they made the arrest in Indonesia. The controversy arises when you realise that drug offenses call for anything from 20 years to the death penalty in Indonesia. Some parents of the (dumbass) kids are suing Australian now because their police 'let them to be exposed to the death penalty' or somesuch. I think its ridiculous and makes perfect sense since the transactions occurred on Indo soil..I think it's always wrong for any state to put someone to death via the legal system under any circumstances.

I further think that states that oppose a practice on the basis of their being fundamentally against human rights (such as the death penalty in Australia or torture in the US) should have policies which reasonably limit other states performing such a practice on their behalf.

I know that others will say "they did the crime, they knew the consequences," but I think that basic human decency and respect for universal human rights trumps that. Just my opinion.

[johno]

well, it is a bit unfair for them to be subject to the death penalty since they could well have been picked up on Australian soil and jailed there. In a situation like this the best solution is for Indonesia to hand over the Aussies who will serve jail time in Australia for their crimes but also be barred from ever entering Indonesia again. The point of law is to protect all citizens and by keeping out the criminals who aren't from their country they'll be achieving that.

The kids were stupid, but I'm sure if they knew that the death penalty or life in jail was involved they'd never have made that choice. That stinks.

[Motterman]

I don't care all that much about other countries' business, but I wouldn't want the US beholden to let foreign justice systems be responsible for dishing out punishment for crimes committed here, just because the perps are not from here....

[StrikerCW]

To be fair, I believe only the two ringleaders are going to be death penaltied (although 3 more sentences tomorow I think). The rest either had life imprisonment or 20 years.

Considered, this is rather harse, but this is the drug trade after all.....:rolleyes:

I mean, yes they should have let them come back, but if you think about it. The crimes all occurred on Indonesian soil. The Aussies aren't going to be able to secretly track those guys in Indo. Therefore, they would need the help of the Indos. I guess the Aussies then decided to use these guys as examples, maybe.

Also, this is probably one of the things I am conservative about. I don't mind the death penalty. I don't think we utilize it correctly in the United States and it doesn't have the desired affect. In that instance I think it should be abolished, but I think it could have been used to deterr crime. Of course that would require some interesting things and consequences..


edit: To cap off, What Motterman said.

[Vermont Red]

The death penalty demeans us all.

[Motterman]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the Danish Cartoon thing...

I mean, these people are more upset at cartoon drawings depicting Mohammed with a bomb in his turban, than they are upset at certain members of their faith blowing innocent people up in the name of Mohammed.

Seems to me that they should put the same effort in finding these people who commit terrorist acts and making them stop, since it's these terrorists who inspired the cartoon drawings in the first place...

[Howard Zinn]

The death penalty demeans us all.


He's a witch!!! Burn him!!!

http://www.intriguing.com/mp/_pictures/grail/large/HolyGrail029.jpg

[GrodZilla]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the Danish Cartoon thing...

I mean, these people are more upset at cartoon drawings depicting Mohammed with a bomb in his turban, than they are upset at certain members of their faith blowing innocent people up in the name of Mohammed.

Seems to me that they should put the same effort in finding these people who commit terrorist acts and making them stop, since it's these terrorists who inspired the cartoon drawings in the first place...

Apparently it was not only insulting to their fath but also insulting to all arabs to be portraied as terrorists.. so because of that they burn down a couple of embassies and threaten to make suicide attacks in scandinavia... just to prove the cartoons wrong of course... could it be that the truth hurts?

(Not saying that all arabs are terrorist, way from it, just that it seems to have struck a sour spot with some certain individuals)

[Achtung]

What worse is that their newspapers frequently publish anti-Jewish propaganda cartoons that is far more offensive than anything they're protesting. Pot, kettle...

[SirManchester]

It's religious fanaticism at its best, many worse caricatures involving Mohamed have been made in the past but they never resulted in the kind of chaos we are seeing now. Due to recent events in the Middle East, Islamic Fundementalists have just arrived to a point where they feel its neccessary to express themselves the way they're doing now.

[Achtung]

Well, Islamic leaders encouraging people to get pissed off because someone supposedly insulted their religion is nothing new. See: Salman Rushdie.

[Vermont Red]

Well, Islamic leaders encouraging people to get pissed off because someone supposedly insulted their religion is nothing new. See: Salman Rushdie.

Careful. You don't want a fatwa about you.

[johno]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the Danish Cartoon thing...

I mean, these people are more upset at cartoon drawings depicting Mohammed with a bomb in his turban, than they are upset at certain members of their faith blowing innocent people up in the name of Mohammed.

Seems to me that they should put the same effort in finding these people who commit terrorist acts and making them stop, since it's these terrorists who inspired the cartoon drawings in the first place...

we have a winner. i wish every anchor on every newsprogram than covered this would say something to that effect.