Man United NSR Politics thread

[SirManchester]

I think we're moving away from the idea of there being one dominant region of the world. Right now the US is better economically, the EU is better socially, and Asia is trying to catch up economically. South America might be next to make a move, especially if the FTAA passes, though that won't necessarily help the people either (much as NAFTA has been a mixed bag).

Also I wouldn't say either region is avoiding the US. Trade between the US and Asia/Europe is increasing, in both directions. Some say that's a problem though for people on both sides.

globalization is a wonderful thing, every country is trying to move forward in one direction. However, not all of them at the same pace. The U.S. is not exactly economically stable relative to the other two continents. It doesn't even look like it is making any progression.

[Achtung]

globalization is a wonderful thing, every country is trying to move forward in one direction. However, not all of them at the same pace.

It can be, but so far it hasn't benefitted as large a percentage of the population as it was supposed to.



The U.S. is not exactly economically stable relative to the other two continents. It doesn't even look like it is making any progression.

Um... what? Over the past few years, Asia has been growing more, but then its a developing economy. Both Europe and the US have been relatively flat compared to the previous decade.

[SirManchester]

It can be, but so far it hasn't benefitted as large a percentage of the population as it was supposed to.



Um... what? Over the past few years, Asia has been growing more, but then its a developing economy. Both Europe and the US have been relatively flat compared to the previous decade.

First of all, I didn't say Asia wasn't growing more, in fact I said it was and soon it will most likely exceed Europe and the States.
For all its problems, the EU has been handling it very well, Europe has certainly been dealing better with their problems as opposed to the United States.

[StrikerCW]

I think that it may not be possible for any of the 'emerging economies' such as India and/or China to survive with the USA. i.e. are we not the highest consumer in the world? Where would they sell these things from the ecomony?

Of course that also goes back to outsourcing in the USA which has been alltogether bad for people in the US. Not only the blue-collar worker but also professional people (technology and engineering mostly).

[johno]

what's wrong with teaching creationism in school?

it makes a helluva lot more sense than the big bang.

where did chelsea come from?

well, Roman bought the club and every player in the world except emile heskey.

where did chelsea come from?

a long long long time ago, two thingys collided and formed chelsea, and that's why they are at the head of the evolutionary chain in football.


:D

[Achtung]

First of all, I didn't say Asia wasn't growing more, in fact I said it was and soon it will most likely exceed Europe and the States.

Ooh, I wouldn't go that far. A lot of the problems plaguing western economies like poor leadership, corporate corruption, widening gap between rich and poor, etc. are even bigger problems in Asia. Poverty is a huge issue there in every country except Japan really.



For all its problems, the EU has been handling it very well, Europe has certainly been dealing better with their problems as opposed to the United States.

Can you be more specific? That's sort of a vague statement to make. The EU has higher unemployment and more problems with inequalities among ethnic groups. The US has weaker social programs and primary education (though US universities are probably better overall, certainly the top ones). These are problems I don't think leaders on either side are dealing well with. The US economy has been relatively flat lately, but the EU's has been weaker, and things will get tougher if/when the Baltic states gain admission.

[johno]

Can you be more specific? That's sort of a vague statement to make. The EU has higher unemployment and more problems with inequalities among ethnic groups. The US has weaker social programs and primary education (though US universities are probably better overall, certainly the top ones). These are problems I don't think leaders on either side are dealing well with. The US economy has been relatively flat lately, but the EU's has been weaker, and things will get tougher if/when the Baltic states gain admission.

no... no it doesn't. I agree with pretty much everything else, except the university bit which I'm on the fence about, but I think you are wrong on the racial inequality issue, its piss poor on both sides of the fence.

[Achtung]

no... no it doesn't. I agree with pretty much everything else, except the university bit which I'm on the fence about, but I think you are wrong on the racial inequality issue, its piss poor on both sides of the fence.

I don't think there's anywhere near equality here, but I guess I'm thinking more in terms of race relations. How often do you hear about race riots or anything like that in the US anymore? Do you hear about fans at sporting events making monkey noises and throwing bananas? Even after 9/11, where there was an increase in violence towards Muslims, it was mostly limited to scattered instances--doesn't make it right, but it was limited and even then almost universally denounced. There seems to be quite a lot more anti-Semitism in Europe as well.

It's obvious that many in our government could hardly care less about African-Americans and Latinos. I just don't think the vast majority of the people in this country still feel that way. I do agree though that racial equality, especially among the richer classes in this country, is probably a long ways off.

[StrikerCW]

I don't really know, but I would imagine that alot of the social issues in the EU are not solved yet for at least one reason being that it is new. The system has just been started. Think about how long it took America to fix things about social etc. (not saying its fixed now, because it definatelly isn't and the things that are supposed to fix it... well they really don't, but thats another post).

I think the real Europeans can fill us in on this more with their opinions (seriously though) as I would like hear more about that. I know that there is a big deal in Germany about Turks and German's disliking them in a similiar way to Mexican travelling workers in USA.

PS I don't mean to offend anyone if I ever do I am apologizing now. Unless I mean to offend you, in which case I will say your name.

[phishy]

creationism


made up word.

[StrikerCW]

I just don't think the vast majority of the people in this country still feel that way.
Eh, I dunno if I'd agree with that statement. Growing up in what is the most racially diverse (not really but the highest percentage of minority I believe) state it is a really wierd situation most of the time.

For instance in schools. There is hardly no problem with racism in primary and secondary schools as far as I know. Kids get along and rare is there a fight of racism. A teacher of mine once said it was much worse up north were there are less black kids in schools and the kids aren't used to be around other types of people all the time.

That said, there are stupid people of all races. I can say that I know white racists. Also I know black people who are basically racists as well. (mostly older black males who were treated badly growing up in the 60s and 70s and have now taken it to heart I would assume)

All in all, still most people down here are very clickish (sp) with whom they socialize. There are places were certain people go and places were certain people go. You know what I mean. It's not very homogenious when it comes down to close friends level if you know what I am saying. Of course there are exceptions but for the most part, its not 'America's melting pot'.

[SirManchester]

what's wrong with teaching creationism in school?

it makes a helluva lot more sense than the big bang.

where did chelsea come from?

well, Roman bought the club and every player in the world except emile heskey.

where did chelsea come from?

a long long long time ago, two thingys collided and formed chelsea, and that's why they are at the head of the evolutionary chain in football.


:D

Absolutely everything is wrong abouy teaching creationism at school.. I hope you were kidding with that one.

[SirManchester]

And speaking of racism, I don't know if VR could attest to this, but NYC is extremely racist. Whites, Asians but more so from the black and hispanic youth, in all boroughs. In my neighborhood, there's not one day that goes by where I hear some Colombian trashing the white minority here, where Blacks don't talk sh!t about the Puerto Ricans and so on.

[mhtwins113]

I figured I'd jump in during this lull in the action and declare that I'm here to balance this thread out and represent the Libertarian right.

[mhtwins113]

Absolutely everything is wrong abouy teaching creationism at school.. I hope you were kidding with that one.
Umm, as long as intelligent design is offered as a non-graduation required elective rather than part of the main curriculum, I have absolutely no problems with it. Why not give a kid the choice of what he wants to believe in or study rather than impose something on him? If you can offer theology classes at a public university, then I can hardly see the horrible impact of teaching rudimentary Creationism in a high school.

[mhtwins113]

I think the title may be a little to un-underthecoverofdarkness. Something less obvious may be in order, but that is your desision Achtung.

Nonetheless. RE John McCain. He is exactlly what the country needs right now. A true moderate that will appeal to many people but also help the economy with his economic conservatism (I think it will help it, just hopefully no more tax cuts). However, he is going to be 72 by 2008 as someone said and the oldest President by 3 years over Reagan, so I don't know how that will work.

I don't think the "great compromiser" needs to be running for President. Seems like a cool guy to hang at a bar and chat with while throwing down brews, but his politics leave a lot to be desired. For example, that farce of an immigration reform bill that we popularly refer to as the McCain-Kennedy bill (warning, Teddy supports it, something must be wrong). What a wonderful idea that is, just give amnesty to all the people who broke the law in coming here illegally. Because we all saw how well Reagan's amnesty plan worked out, I'm sure this would be just as successful.

[SirManchester]

Umm, as long as intelligent design is offered as a non-graduation required elective rather than part of the main curriculum, I have absolutely no problems with it. Why not give a kid the choice of what he wants to believe in or study rather than impose something on him? If you can offer theology classes at a public university, then I can hardly see the horrible impact of teaching rudimentary Creationism in a high school.

What the hell...It's beyond me how people take this idea of intelligent design or creationism seriously. Am I the only one who takes it as seriously as a damn Disney movie!?
Compared to Evolution or everything Science has to offer, intelligent design/creationism has NOTHING on it, NOTHING to offer. It's hard evidence against...well...nothing.

[johno]

I was half kidding w/ my Creationism post.. the kidding part was the Chelsea part.

However, please explain to me, if Scientists have failed on inumerable occasions in controlled environments to replicate life in the manner in which they claim it came to be then why is the idea that a greater being is responsible for the earth.

I mean, even if you believe in the big bang what the hell made up the big bang... something existed before the world was formed and there's nothing silly about thinking that something was god when faced with a random collision of some enzymes forming life.

Note, I'm not saying don't teach evolution... I'm just saying don't throw the creation theory and intelligent design out the window.

[Howard Zinn]

I suppose I have to throw my two cents into the ring now. Scientists can't prove that the big bang actually happened, so don't teach it. Christians can't prove that there is one god that created everything, so don't teach it. The children of this country should be taught how to add, subtract, and write complete sentences, instead of spending all of this time being taught things that no one, and I mean NO ONE, has proved. If kids want to mess around with these sort of things on there own time, they can go knock themselves out with it, but in public schools being paid for by the people of this country let's actually teach our kids something useful.

[Sapphire]

My opinion: science is a specific field. It is not the end all be all explanation of everything ever. Philosophy is a complement to science. Science is the what, philosophy is the why. Because philosophical ideas conflict with or engage with scientific ones, it doesn't mean we should put a caveat on science. Science goes for the best possible explanation of things -- it's not definitive fact (as Johno points out, science's view of the world has changed thru history) and it's also not willy nilly. There's a process (a "method" :) ) to it. I think it's extremely important to teach philosophy alongside science, but in a different classroom and in a different context. There's no "method" for determining how to teach creationism--who's right, what branch of Christianity, or is the Hindu perspective, or the Buddhists, or what is the source after all?? These are questions for a philosophy course, within a philosophical methodology.

Having said that, I do agree with Zinn, that this all comes to little when many kids in our schools can't write clearly, do mathematics, or famously locate countries on a map. I would add science to those basic skills, and sadly put philosophy as a much lower priority. (As a former philosophy major, that's hard to do, particularly because I see that the discipline really does help develop analytical thinking in students). In my opinion, I wish the people that clamor so loudly to have their kids taught this and that or not this or that would clamor for more, and better managed, money for their kids' overall education.