What's the deal with Cleveland?

[TMDSoccer]

I am admittedly late to the game, but there must be someone from Cleveland who knows (i) who the prospective ownership group is (ii) where they might play or look to build a stadium.

[DaniCrew]

I am admittedly late to the game, but there must be someone from Cleveland who knows (i) who the prospective ownership group is (ii) where they might play or look to build a stadium.

Ownership group is the late Bart Wolstein's son with Paul Garofolo pulling the strings...

There are two possible sites that have been bandied about... one is just off the E. 9th Street exit off I-77 (about 2 blocks away from Jacob's Field)... the other is in an area by Boston Hills Golf Course... just north of the turnpike but south of I-271...

[SoccerPrime]

The deal, as it maybe called by MLS and the Wolfsteins, is what we call in the field, and I quote, "a crack dream".

Thank you

Seriously, Cleveland was given the green light 2 -3 years ago when Bart Wolfstein and Garber got together. Sure Bart had the potential to get it done, but since then the city of Cleveland baulked at building a SSS (sting stinging from Browns stadium), Bart died, he son and partners did not have the passion that Bart did nor his business sense.
Add to this that they folded their MISL team last year, you have all the elements of another MLS expansion crack dream.

[Ruud Boy]

Whatever dude. There's still movement with the Cleveland team. Just because you don't read about it every day, doesn't mean nothing's happening.

I found two articles today, that may point to some momentum for Cleveland. One, in Trecker's latest column on fox sports, he mentions that cleveland has the inside track for #14. The other article, in the Plain Dealer, mentions that Cleveland may be hosting the USMNT in May.

Now, let's go in the future 60 days, and you can see how the announcement of a WC tune up match and a new soccer team in the city would work quite well together.

Cleveland to host USMNT? (http://www.cleveland.com/sports/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/sports/1138354988287441.xml&coll=2)

[SoccerPrime]

Hey I wish you all the best, I hope you actually get a team.
But if nothing has changed with the "investor" group, its a bigtime longshot.

[Joe Stoker]

As for downtown, it seems that soccer would only be a cog in Scott Wolstein's overall plans for a development overhaul of the flats and proposed convention center. I get the impression they could live with soccer or without it, thank you. IMO, I do detect a lagging (if not lack) of soccer passion in the current plans, compared to when Bertram was alive in charge. To a taxpayer, the current plan seems less friendly w/o Bert's personality. To current landowners, it now seems even predatory (read:eminent domain for private gain).

Boston Hills: Not much (if anything) has been bandied in the Akron Beacon Journal or airwaves since's Bert's passing. The idea of us tax-gouged Summit County (read:Akron) residents footing (excuse the pun) the bill for a Cleveland guy's soccer stadium is beyond my limited comprehension. Ram-rodding this thing through might lead to big trouble for a number of little Boss Tweeds around here. Unless they're counting on the normal apathy which accompanies our general demoralization (loss of jobs, industry). Bert could make a killing marketing ice cubes to Eskimoes. IMO, the current org lacks such charm.

Myself, I'm pretty numb to whatever happens. I'm history. For those who would want pro soccer under these circumstances, I wish them good luck.

[TMDSoccer]

I would think that if this were to happen soon we would hear about an ownership group stepping forward, or at least some public movement on that front (kind of like Milwaukee seems to have). Seems like Cleveland would be a great soccer market, but without some type of committed, financially capable owner, can't see Garber getting excited.

[Joe Stoker]

I would think that if this were to happen soon we would hear about an ownership group stepping forward, or at least some public movement on that front (kind of like Milwaukee seems to have). Seems like Cleveland would be a great soccer market, but without some type of committed, financially capable owner, can't see Garber getting excited.

Go Bays!

As DaniCrew mentioned, it's generally common knowledge that the Wolstein group still holds the so-called letter of intent on MLS Cleveland. Unlike Milwaukee's group, they are not exactly striking up the band, photo ops, etc. here. In fact, it strikes me more in the spirit of the old League One America concept (early '90s). Use pro soccer as a smokescreen/excuse to build a permanent entertainment complex with attached businesses (restaurants with lots of below-minimum wage jobs) by which an owner/investor can line their own pockets. Soccer seems nowhere as important to such a party as to the fans whose appitites they whet with such plans. If pro soccer fails, there's always rock concerts, WWE and high school football for the stadium.

[midwestsurfer]

Trecker says he 'thinks' that Clevland has the leg up. However I don't put to much stock in his collums. He is as bad as half the people that post here and just another blogger as far as I am concerned. (just he gets payed for it, doesn't mean I buy it)

However Peter Wilt mentioned that much had been done with Cleveland behind the scences. However, it didn't sound to me like it was going to be the 14th expansion team.

[suppitty]

The press in Cleveland is strongly opposed to soccer, and a small example of this came in the article you gave about the possible USMNT game. The paper was eager to point out that only 16,000 showed up at 80,000 seat Municipal stadium. I just don't think Cleveland could support a team very well.

[WestLooper]

The press in Cleveland is strongly opposed to soccer, and a small example of this came in the article you gave about the possible USMNT game. The paper was eager to point out that only 16,000 showed up at 80,000 seat Municipal stadium. I just don't think Cleveland could support a team very well.

I agree. But as a former Clevelander, I would love to see it happen and succeed. Unfortunatley with the best team in baseball from July-mid-September, the Jake could only draw 20k.

[USRufnex]

The Trecker story reminds me why I'm not a fan of his... nothing new here, just some conjecture and some really sloppy journalism...


Representatives for efforts in Philadelphia, Milwaukee and Cleveland attended the MLS SuperDraft last week.

"Representatives for efforts"???

This, and mulitple uses of the word "seems" sets off my b.s. detector...
(ummm... big soccer, that is...)

[Ruud Boy]

I emailed Bob Roberts yesterday, the author of the story on the possible USMNT team game. I asked him about Cleveland in MLS. He gave me the same answer that I give other people. To paraphrase, "because it isn't in the news doesn't mean nothing's happening behind the scenes." Also, he noted that the ownership group is being very secretive.

I should also mention, that using the Bob Roberts article as an example of the press in Cleveland being against soccer is a rather poor example. He's a huge soccer fan who also happens to write about horse racing. He's written a lot of good soccer articles in the past and he is very knowldegable on the game in the states and the world.

[USRufnex]

I think any announcement for Cleveland revolves around this:

11/12/2005 9:57PM
MLS Board of Governors meets in Frisco, Texas
Major League Soccer

Quote:
EXPANSION FEES: The expansion fee for the future investor-operators of the 14th MLS expansion team is set at $15 million through December 31, 2005. After this date, the expansion fee for the 14th team (regardless of whether the expansion team enters in 2007 or 2008) will increase significantly.

If Cleveland's group could save 3-5 million bucks by being announced as the 14th team, it could justify the team paying through the nose to use Cleveland Stadium until a new soccer-friendly stadium is constructed.

[dmike]

Is Cleveland the right city though??? Is it another Columbus type of soccer community?

[FuzzyForeigner]

how much do people from cleveland hate columbus? i know "hate" is a strong word but I am curious as to how strong a rivalry would be.

[metrofan89]

We dont really need two teams in Ohio do we?

[Sirk]

how much do people from cleveland hate columbus? i know "hate" is a strong word but I am curious as to how strong a rivalry would be.

Having lived in both cities, I'd say hatred flows northward, while indifference flows southward. Columbus has a bit of an inferiorty/superiority complex about Ohio's largest metro area, whereas Cleveland views Columbus as a glorified cow pasture with a good college football team.

Any existing "rivalry" is based on the old-school/new-school dichotomy....nothing do with sports. Cleveland and Columbus have never really competed in anything...Cleveland was the pro town and Columbus the college town. Columbus has had no rival for the Indians, Browns or Cavaliers. Cleveland has had no rival for the Buckeyes. And even now that Columbus has some pro teams, Cleveland has had no rival for the Crew or Blue Jackets. Even in fringe sports, I think the only time Cleveland and Columbus have been in the same league is the 1996-1997 NPSL season, when the Cleveland Crunch pummeled the Columbus Invaders a few times. And it's absurd to think that this registered so much as a blip in either city's consciousness.

So really, it just comes down to the North Coast being the long-standing cultural, economic and population center of the state....whereas Columbus is now rapidly rising amidst Cleveland/Akron's decline. So the rivalry flows northward because Columbus wants to supplant Cleveland as THE de facto Ohio city. Columbusites view Clevelanders an unemployed factory workers who light their crack pipes with the river.....whereas Clevelanders, if they can be bothered to notice Columbus at all, view it as a city full of incestuous bumpkins who drink milk straight from the udder before leaving for the OSU tailgate.

Neither is right of course. I love both cities. But any rivaly is more of a new-school/old-school....big-brother/little-brother kind of thing. It's not sports related at all, so a Crew-Cleveland rivalry would be the first of its kind.

Sirk

[Brutus112]

Good stuff Sirk..... Although I don't agree on all accounts.. I'm living in Michigan (went to school @ OSU) and have done a lot of traveling with work. My comparisons of Columbus and Cleveland go as such:

Columbus is like Toronto
Cleveland is a suburb of Detroit seperated by water.

I'm really not sure that Cleveland is the kind of city that would support an MLS team. Or any team not named the Browns. Actually, I think that the 'nati would have a better MLS fan base than Cleveland.

[Sirk]

Columbus is like Toronto


A smaller, less cosmopolitan, white-bread Toronto. I do see the similarity in that it is a clean and friendly city, just like Toronto. Of course, if it were located in Ontario, Columbus would merely be one of those huge Toronto suburbs like Mississauga.


Cleveland is a suburb of Detroit seperated by water.

Wow. That's brutal. And quite unfair. In several trips to downtown Detroit, I have experienced many more bizarre and unusual stories and confontations than I have in a lifetime of visits to downtown Cleveland.

In terms of Ohio, downtown Cleveland is much better than downtown Columbus in terms of being a social center for the city. The arena district is helping to correct that, though. And in terms of natural splendor, Cleveland wins hands down, between the lake, all the trees, the river valleys, the Appalachian foothills, etc. Cleveland is a beautiful location. Columbus popped up on a flat stretch of land...its another bland cornfield oasis like Indianapolis.

(I am not ripping on Columbus....I think Cbus is cleaner, friendlier, cheaper, and obviously has a better economy.)

Anyway, the main point is that the North Coast has always been distinctly different from the rest of Ohio. It has always been part midwest, part east coast. Equal parts New York and Chicago. (Which makes sense since it used to be the 4th most populous city in the country, being the midpoint to those two cities.) It's part New England in terms of its marine business, part Pittsburgh in terms of its steel business. Cleveland/Akron have been their own distinct part of the state, whereas the rest of the state was mostly agricultural flatlands or rural Appalachia. Cincy was a river town--decidedly more "Kentucky" than "North Coast"-- and Toledo has always been associated with Detroit, rather than the rest of Ohio. Toledo is like Detroit's Akron. If that makes sense.

But since the North Coast has always been the "center" of the state in terms of, well, just about everything except for corn yields and lawsuits against Larry Flint, Columbusites have developed an inferiority/superiority complex about Cleveland. Columbus does have things to brag about over Cleveland, and due to the inferiority complex, the locals love to brag about those superiorities. But Clevelanders don't even notice Columbus except for a few fall Saturdays every year. Well, until they move to Columbus. (Which explains the population shift, eh?)

Since there are no current sports rivalries, that's all I could come up with in terms of a rivalry between the two cities. But it's definitely more little-brother-Columbus wanting to be better than big-brother-Cleveland, while big brother isn't even bothered enough to care.

I think a Crew-Cleveland rivalry would be interesting in that Columbus would be "big brother" in this instance, and I think Crew fans will take to this rivalry immediately. I can see hordes of yellow descending on Cleveland twice per year...hopefully that would ignite similar passions on the Cleveland end.


I'm really not sure that Cleveland is the kind of city that would support an MLS team. Or any team not named the Browns. Actually, I think that the 'nati would have a better MLS fan base than Cleveland.

Yes and no. The Crew draw a fair amount of fans from Cincy/Dayton. A team in Cincy cannibalizes the Crew ticket base. As stated earlier, Cleveland/Akron is its own distinct part of the state. While there are some Cleveland Crew fans, the numbers are not large...part of which has to do with the whole "its only Columbus" thing.

I am not sold that a team will work in Cleveland, but if the stadium is in Summit County, with equal access to the affluent Cleveland suburbs and Akron, then I think it has a chance.

It will be great for the Crew though, on the field and off, so I am all for it. Plus, I like the idea of being able to go to MLS games just about every weekend of the summer. :)

Sirk