"Champions League Shelf Life"

[Cornballer]

At the back end of Soccernet's article on the new offer given to Henry (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=356404&cc=5901), there are some interesting quotes from Peter Hill-Wood.

Meanwhile, Hill-Wood believes some of the club's star names are reaching the end of their Champions League shelf-life.

While backing manager Arsene Wenger's recruitment track record at Highbury over the last decade, Hill-Wood insists a changing of the guard is needed to stop Arsenal stagnating at the highest level.

He told the Daily Star: 'What we've got is two or three players who are probably a year from not being good enough in the Champions League. And to replace them immediately is incredibly difficult.

'Robert Pires, Freddie Ljungberg, Sol Campbell....whether they have lost a yard of pace I don't know, but Arsene does know.

'You could certainly spend £30million and not replace them. And Arsene is very good at not doing that. He'd rather buy young talent. He thinks the boys he's just brought in are going to be pretty good.'

Do you agree? Disagree? I suppose it's important for the management to track this sort of thing and plan accordingly, but I was just suprised that he named a few names and basically said that they were past it (or will be within a year).

[michaec]

I think there may be some truth in the cases of Pires and Campbell. Pires has never been the same after his knee injury and Campbell is increasingly injury prone. IMO Fred is just off form and a goal or two will sort him out.

[GriffinGunner]

I think we're also finding out that the team's formula is changing now that the new personnel are in place. What might've worked for Arsenal in the past doesn't exactly equate now, and as such the pieces of the old machine may not truly fit in the new one. As discussed elsewhere I think Pires could work out fine if the central midfield had the right personnel involved to restore his old role outside and give him more time. That same thing might also relieve some of the pressure on the D and Campbell.

We know that as is the squad is incomplete and not built for winning the EPL. So the question becomes will the new signings be favorable to a system that the old guard can work with, or are we seeing a change of systems that renders them extraneous?

[JCGooner]

I'm relieved to read this from Hill Wood - finally some acknowldegement from the top that these 3 in particular are not the players they were. Sol is the real worry for me, a lot of defenders are good right up until their mid thirties (Dixon, Adams, Bolud etc..) but mark my word Sol won't be one of them. His body type, i.e being built like a rugby player will only accerate his decline, I don't know how many years he has left on his contract but this summer might be the time to cash in while he still has some value.. Pires is truly done, I agree that injury a few years back was what undid him, great signing for the club though. Freddie has also turned in to a liability also, lost pace, can't finish and was never a great passer to begin with - he even seems disinterested at times; the hard part of course will be finding replacements for these guys - over to you Arsene....

[michaec]

I wasn't really talking about their ability, more their physical frailties starting to manifest themselves as they move into their thirties.

[Jasonisimo]

Ljungberg is a few years younger, though. He's running well and getting into good spots. He just hasn't taken his chances. He could get that touch back with a regular run in the side barring injuries. The team has been far more inconsistent in it's make-up than over just last season, much less the halcion days of 03/04. This team isn't done yet, and neither are Campbell or Pires, not quite.

[surfcam]

I wasn't really talking about their ability, more their physical frailties starting to manifest themselves as they move into their thirties.

It is definitely true, and the generation gap is hurting the team. Also, as GG mentions, what worked with the previous group may not be the best system for the new players. Some changes in tactics, motivation, etc. may be in order.

[phishy]

Some changes in tactics.

Arsene Wenger didnt hear that. ;)

[surfcam]

Arsene Wenger didnt hear that. ;)

I think we've all seen that!

[KevTheGooner]

Arsene Wenger didnt hear that. ;)


There are other tactics? :confused: Explain...

[KevTheGooner]

You know, we know these things are true about Sol, Pires and (maybe Freddy) but it doesn't seem right to have them said in the media coming from a club muckety-muck.

[fox point fury]

You know, we know these things are true about Sol, Pires and (maybe Freddy) but it doesn't seem right to have them said in the media coming from a club muckety-muck.

Seriously. Say it behind closed doors in board meetings, then thank them for their service once they've moved on. It's awfully disrespectful to say that about a current member of the team.

[Cannon]

Ljungberg is a few years younger, though. He's running well and getting into good spots. He just hasn't taken his chances. He could get that touch back with a regular run in the side barring injuries. The team has been far more inconsistent in it's make-up than over just last season, much less the halcion days of 03/04. This team isn't done yet, and neither are Campbell or Pires, not quite.
Exactly. If Freddie was finishing as well as in previous seasons, he'd have at least 5-6 Prem goals so far. Somehow he's been unable to finish sitters and tap ins that were his bread and butter in the past. Pace is probably a tiny part of it since his runs into the box have been just a bit slower leading to him just missing chances but I doubt that explain most of the problem. I'm hoping that he gets one soon and he's right back to scoring for us.

Pires and Sol on the other hand are fast declining and I wouldn't have a problem with the club replacing either by the start of next season. Sol might be able to last longer because Toure can make up for his loss of speed but his injury problems are likely going to continue to get worse. We're a bit thin at CB though so I won't be surprised when Wenger keeps him and unfortunately he misses dozens of games next season. Pires could work for another year as a super sub-type with limited appearances but its not worth giving him a multiyear contract and I doubt he'd be happy with just a handful of appearances/starts. Sell him this summer for whatever we can get. Give his time to the young wingers and wingers pretending to be FBs that we've got.

[michaec]

I think we've all seen that!
He didn't see it either! :D

[GoonaWin]

Seriously. Say it behind closed doors in board meetings, then thank them for their service once they've moved on. It's awfully disrespectful to say that about a current member of the team.


I agree 100%. What will Arsenal be if the board start mouthing dumb shit like that? Whether he's right or wrong, it's awfully unprofessional to say it out loud. You won't see Wenger doing that. Besides how is he calculating our shelf life, we've never passed the quarters in the CL anyway? I think tho, it's in relation to not giving Pires an extension. We'll see what happens. But please no more board blabber.

[Catfish]

I think there may be some truth in the cases of Pires and Campbell. Pires has never been the same after his knee injury and Campbell is increasingly injury prone. IMO Fred is just off form and a goal or two will sort him out.
point, set, match! Pires and Campbell are not fast enough and get injuried too much. Freddy is following right behind them.

[carw2005]

I dont agree that Ljunberg and Pires are lacking in any way. Ljunberg could just be ff form and pires always seems top score when we need him to.

Campbell on the other hand does seemed to have slowed down, he is getting on and always seems to be injured. he can still perform and he is one of the most experienceed players we have, but he does seem to be slowing. Same goes for bergkamp imo, you can tell this is his final year.