Gold cup 2003- news & notes

[Daniel from Montréal]

Originally posted by RobtheAggie
Only in the US would there be crowds which would make the tournament remotly feasible. The tournament is run by CONCACAF and they set the location. Most of the game are played historically in either LA or Miami because of the wide ethnic populations there. If the games were played in Canada, how many people would show up for a Guatemala vs. Dominican Republic game? Or Mexico vs. US. I think what CONCACAF hopes is for the US and Mexico every tournament to play in the finals. That way they are assured of the largest crowds, which means the most money. If you look at most of the CONCACAF tournaments, there is no hiding the fact that many are set up for a Mexican team to play a US one in the Final. It is economics.

Then again, how many people would turned out for the semis and final last 2 editions? 6 games, probably less than 100,000...

[EvilRick]

Originally posted by Daniel from Montréal
Then again, how many people would turned out for the semis and final last 2 editions? 6 games, probably less than 100,000...

The last final in the US pulled a cool 10k :D

In 1993 Mexico co-hosted the gold cup and the Aztec stadium was packed to the Max for 3 games 300,000 to 330,000 fans payed good money.

[RobtheAggie]

But look who was in the last two finals. US vs. Costa Rica, and Canada vs. Columbia. My point was that CONCACAF sets up the tournament so that the US and Mexico can play in the finals. In 2002, Mexico lost in the quarter-finals and the fans who would have come to see them did not come. Does anyone honestly think that Canada vs. Columbia game would have drawn more than 7k in Mexico or Canada? Or Costa Rica vs. US more than 10K in Mexico or Costa Rica? The Euro Championship works because people in the Host country will watch the games no matter what team is playing. Also there is a fairly large group of supporters who travel to the games. CONCACAF teams do not have that following out of their countries, except here in the US. Most of the ex-patriot citizens of the Central American root for their national team of birth, not the US. These people can take the place of the traveling supporters. If CONCACAF wants to make money on the event, they will hold it in the US. If not, they will rotate it. I have no problem with using a rotation, but I think that CONCACAf does.

[GIO17]

MattBurlew said

Why is the Copa America the holy grail? It's a South American tournament, let them have it.

If you want to create a one game American championship between the Gold Cup and CA winners, that's fine, but I see no need to cross-enter tournaments.
--------------------------------------------------

THANK YOU MATTY! Thank you very much. That's the same feeling that I have had since the arguments of cross-entering tournaments.

If the Mexicans want to pretend that they are South Americans let them be the perminant Guests of the Copa America. Besides I understand that some of the South Americans are upset that this actually happened.

[Eric B]

Matt's format pretty much hits it on the head, but as he said, the ability of the smaller nations to pay for traveling is what could be the deal-killer. The other option is to have more groups, but smaller (3 or 4 teams) and just one team makes it from each group. Yeah, you'll pretty much determine who makes it just by which nations are seeds, but you're more likely to get the St. Vincent's and Nicaragua's involved if they only have to pay for 2 or three trips over an 18 month period.

[JG]

The three final round doubleheaders of the 2001 UNCAF championship in Honduras--after the hosts had been upset in the first round--drew a total of 660 fans.

[Captain Canuck]

Originally posted by RobtheAggie
But look who was in the last two finals. US vs. Costa Rica, and Canada vs. Columbia. My point was that CONCACAF sets up the tournament so that the US and Mexico can play in the finals. In 2002, Mexico lost in the quarter-finals and the fans who would have come to see them did not come. Does anyone honestly think that Canada vs. Columbia game would have drawn more than 7k in Mexico or Canada?

If the 2003 or 2005 Gold Cup final between Canada & Colombia was to be held in Commonwealth Stadium in Edmonton (the only grass-surface venue currently in Canada large enough to hold the final) I can assure you there would be a lot more than 7000 fans in the stands.

[RobtheAggie]

Originally posted by Captain Canuck
If the 2003 or 2005 Gold Cup final between Canada & Colombia was to be held in Commonwealth Stadium in Edmonton (the only grass-surface venue currently in Canada large enough to hold the final) I can assure you there would be a lot more than 7000 fans in the stands.

But the point is, if the game was between Colombia and say El Salvador, or the US and Costa Rica, how many would show up? That is the point here. Mabye the only way to assure a lot of people at the final is to hold it a week later in another country, who knows. They way it is now, the US is the only logical situiation, if the goal is for CONCACAf to make money.

[DoyleG]

Originally posted by RobtheAggie
But the point is, if the game was between Colombia and say El Salvador, or the US and Costa Rica, how many would show up? That is the point here. Mabye the only way to assure a lot of people at the final is to hold it a week later in another country, who knows. They way it is now, the US is the only logical situiation, if the goal is for CONCACAf to make money.

That's an argument that holds little weight today.

[beineke]

Originally posted by JG
The three final round doubleheaders of the 2001 UNCAF championship in Honduras--after the hosts had been upset in the first round--drew a total of 660 fans.

Looked like more on tv.

[Daniel from Montréal]

The three final round doubleheaders of the 2001 UNCAF championship in Honduras--after the hosts had been upset in the first round--drew a total of 660 fans.

Move Honduras now!




Heheheh ;)

[Martin Fischer]

Originally posted by Captain Canuck
If the 2003 or 2005 Gold Cup final between Canada & Colombia was to be held in Commonwealth Stadium in Edmonton (the only grass-surface venue currently in Canada large enough to hold the final) I can assure you there would be a lot more than 7000 fans in the stands.

Would you get 90,000 if Mexico was in the final? Would you get 20,000+ for preliminary games involving El Salvador or Guatemala?

If not, you should be able to understand CONCACAF's logic.

[Captain Canuck]

Originally posted by Martin Fischer
Would you get 90,000 if Mexico was in the final? Would you get 20,000+ for preliminary games involving El Salvador or Guatemala?

If not, you should be able to understand CONCACAF's logic.

I was simply answering the question that was posed, whether anybody thought that having Canada in a final played in Canada would draw more than 7000 fans. Of course it would.

[Captain Canuck]

It was reported on Canadian television today that the Canadian Soccer Association has been informed that the following teams will be located in the following cities for the Gold Cup:

Boston:
Mexico, United States

Miami:
Costa Rica, Canada

I'm only passing on what was reported on Canadian television & not vouching for its accuracy (though I suspect its accurate). There was no mention of a Washington as a venue.

With each team being the "seed" in a different group, it suggests that Concacaf hasn't learned from their mistakes & we will see 4 groups of 3 teams & yet another coin toss/blind draw. I suspect Brazil will not be placed in Boston as the organizers would likely want them to meet either Mexico or the US in the semi-final. I would suspect that Brazil will be placed in Canada's group once again with the expectation that Brazil would top the group, beat the 2nd place team in Costa Rica's group & move on to Boston for the semi-final.

Putting Canada in Miami instead of Boston greatly annoys many Canadian fans who were hoping to drive down for the group matches.

[cafrine]

Originally posted by Captain Canuck
Putting Canada in Miami instead of Boston greatly annoys many Canadian fans who were hoping to drive down for the group matches.
you'd think that would be an obvious decision. what idiots (whoever decided locations)

[DoyleG]

My idea would be to keep the tournament at 12 teams. Taking the example from the 2002 Gold Cup, I would have the 10 CONCACAF teams already in plus I would have invited Honduras and Jamacia to around out the 12 teams.

The tournament would be a format of 3 groups of 4 teams each. This would almost eliminate the need for a blind draw or a coin toss.

As for the notion that countires outside of the US or Mexico no being able to run the tournament, that is complete bunk. Canada, Mexico, and T&T would host the tournament.

Canada is considering a bid for 2005.

[chibchab]

Originally posted by GIO17
MattBurlew said

Why is the Copa America the holy grail? It's a South American tournament, let them have it.

If you want to create a one game American championship between the Gold Cup and CA winners, that's fine, but I see no need to cross-enter tournaments.
--------------------------------------------------

THANK YOU MATTY! Thank you very much. That's the same feeling that I have had since the arguments of cross-entering tournaments.

If the Mexicans want to pretend that they are South Americans let them be the perminant Guests of the Copa America. Besides I understand that some of the South Americans are upset that this actually happened.

I think the USSF dropped the ball when they didn't attend Copa America 97'. They declined the invitation to concentrate on MLS but were tremendously short sighted. See, the Latino fan is a fundamental piece of MLS success. Latino's percieve US soccer as below standard. How do you prove them wrong? Go into their premier tournament and prove them wrong, like we did in 95'. We had to build on that performance so Latinos recognize the US prowess and not get turned off to MLS.

I hope USSF decides to accept an invitation if one is extended in the future.

[MasterShake29]

I have nothing in principle against attending Copa America, as long as:

* It's completely separate from and does not conflict with the Gold Cup. CONCACAF has 40 teams, South America only has 10. So if they want a 12 team tournament, they need guests. CONCACAF does not. We do however need competent leadership, but that's another issue.

* The South Americans are taking it seriously.

* It's our only tournament for the USMNT for the summer.

* MLS isn't significantly affected and can slow down its schedule some.

* We get it on TV here in English.

[big spaniel]

Isn't the draw today?

[RobtheAggie]

Originally posted by big spaniel
Isn't the draw today?

No the Confederations Cup Draw is today. The Gold Cup should be by the end of the month.