Dark Savante
19 Jan 2006, 02:40 PM
Hello all, :)
I would like to put a disclaimer on this thread before it gets going. I am almost bereft of an opinion about Darren Fletcher. Both the for and against camps for the player are too extreme for my timid eyes to read a Fletch inspired war. What I always do with young players is give them the benefit of the doubt. As far as that goes Fletcher is a kid and as such I find it hard to slate him. In fact, when Fletch has a bad game I don't write much about it for fear of both the Fletchfor and Fletchagainst camps begin yet another war of atrition that dies down...until the next questionable game.
This has been going on for almost 2yrs now. One side panning him and really making a bigger deal of an OK performance then is merited and the other side really overstating his attributes or contribution when he has an above average game.
SAF has reassured us all that Fletch is going to be a class player in a few years time. Sometimes I think he may be right, but others you'd think the manager has lost his mind. I've watched Fletch grow, admittedly don't watch him for Scotland (excpet in the Italy game where he was impressive) but at reserve level I never thought much of Fletch, I never got a 'high' vibe from watching him. If had've been writing profiles on here at the time his would be modest at best.
I've always found it hard to have an opinion on Fletcher. Tbh, I still don't know what I think of him. I see both the Fletch for and against sides. The one particular aspect I've always wondered about with Fletcher is what is he supposed to be. I.E an AM a CM a deep lying playmaker...etc Teso says he is played out of position, but I don't quite understand what Fletch would offer further up the field. For instance he doesn't like intricacy and he doesn't shoot often (I know he's scored some peaches for Scotland) but I haven't seen him do anything of much for United. That can't all be down to tactical restrictions, surely?
On some players I will come straight out and say they are not MUQ. You can see the poorness oozing out of them and they don't have anything to offer. Players like Silvestre, P.N, Djemba, O'Shea...I think we can all agree these are poor players, even if they had the odd good game here and there their overall contribution for United is sub-par and not MUQ. With Fletch I perch on the fence, devoid of an opinion. He's 21 yrs old. Players like Keane, Robbo, Ince weren't even at the club at those ages and for the most part people didn't get to see them ripen before coming here. If Fletcher was serving his apprenticeship elsewhere before coming here as a more complete product people would not have the opportunity to slate him so.
On the other hand.... I watch our kids at reserve level a lot.. you see several CM's at that level that you immmediately get a vibe for, so much so that I rate them, even though unproven at 1st team level, as above Fletcher - I can see that they are about something at 17,18,19 and that they already have a niche that makes them stand out plus a very competent overall game.
For example without hesitation, in my mind D.Jones, is a better player than Fletcher. A better passer, better reader of the game, leader, attacker, shooting even tackling I would put him quite some distance ahead of Fletcher for and he is 2yrs younger. D.Gibson is really not that far behind and he is a big robust lad. I can't use the 'age card' for Fletcher in these instances so it leaves me a bit more perplexed.
Regarding the age thing it could also be difficult to ascertain what it is about Fletcher that keeps him in the 1st team of United.
When you consider we tolerate Ronaldo's erratic game because the talent we can all see within him is immense.
Rooney can almost do no wrong. And is up there as one of, if not the most important player we have.
Rossi is emerging, his talent is obvious.
We all know precisely why these two are in the team so young (and why Rossi is being raved about). At any given time you can see why. But where does all this leave Fletcher? What is it that his fans see in him and what is it his detractors see in the same run of games?
It's not just idiots taking a view either. In fact, nearly everyone on the forum has taken a side, most, well respected and proven over time to have sense in their heads. howard is vehement in his pronounced ..um..vitriole of Fletcher ...Johno seems to flit from one side to the other. Motter and Billy are in the Fletcher club and the list of posters taking a camp goes on. Why? What has Fletcher done so right or wrong for such pronounced camps?
What is it about this player that frequently has the fans up in arms?
If you dislike the player - can you not appreciate he is a work in progress?
If you like the player - can you say he offers the team anything that say a QF would not, what is it, for you, that suggests Fletcher is worthy of a starting xi spot at United?
We've always had little arguement tagged on to non-related threads about anything United where a Fletcher row just erupts from nowhere. We've had accomodation of the Fletch and Fletch appreciation threads. But we have never gotten to the bare bones of the issue. People in one camp point to a few of Fletch's best games people in the other camp point to almost every average game Fletcher has. But no one really puts down the tangibles for and against Fletch in no uncertain terms except howard (and his hammer to crush a grape approach)
Should Fletcher be a United starter, why for or against?
Let's keep this civil btw, no silly flame wars. I'm actually quite curious about the true thoughts of both camps because I can see both the reasons for and against the player.
Cheers.
I would like to put a disclaimer on this thread before it gets going. I am almost bereft of an opinion about Darren Fletcher. Both the for and against camps for the player are too extreme for my timid eyes to read a Fletch inspired war. What I always do with young players is give them the benefit of the doubt. As far as that goes Fletcher is a kid and as such I find it hard to slate him. In fact, when Fletch has a bad game I don't write much about it for fear of both the Fletchfor and Fletchagainst camps begin yet another war of atrition that dies down...until the next questionable game.
This has been going on for almost 2yrs now. One side panning him and really making a bigger deal of an OK performance then is merited and the other side really overstating his attributes or contribution when he has an above average game.
SAF has reassured us all that Fletch is going to be a class player in a few years time. Sometimes I think he may be right, but others you'd think the manager has lost his mind. I've watched Fletch grow, admittedly don't watch him for Scotland (excpet in the Italy game where he was impressive) but at reserve level I never thought much of Fletch, I never got a 'high' vibe from watching him. If had've been writing profiles on here at the time his would be modest at best.
I've always found it hard to have an opinion on Fletcher. Tbh, I still don't know what I think of him. I see both the Fletch for and against sides. The one particular aspect I've always wondered about with Fletcher is what is he supposed to be. I.E an AM a CM a deep lying playmaker...etc Teso says he is played out of position, but I don't quite understand what Fletch would offer further up the field. For instance he doesn't like intricacy and he doesn't shoot often (I know he's scored some peaches for Scotland) but I haven't seen him do anything of much for United. That can't all be down to tactical restrictions, surely?
On some players I will come straight out and say they are not MUQ. You can see the poorness oozing out of them and they don't have anything to offer. Players like Silvestre, P.N, Djemba, O'Shea...I think we can all agree these are poor players, even if they had the odd good game here and there their overall contribution for United is sub-par and not MUQ. With Fletch I perch on the fence, devoid of an opinion. He's 21 yrs old. Players like Keane, Robbo, Ince weren't even at the club at those ages and for the most part people didn't get to see them ripen before coming here. If Fletcher was serving his apprenticeship elsewhere before coming here as a more complete product people would not have the opportunity to slate him so.
On the other hand.... I watch our kids at reserve level a lot.. you see several CM's at that level that you immmediately get a vibe for, so much so that I rate them, even though unproven at 1st team level, as above Fletcher - I can see that they are about something at 17,18,19 and that they already have a niche that makes them stand out plus a very competent overall game.
For example without hesitation, in my mind D.Jones, is a better player than Fletcher. A better passer, better reader of the game, leader, attacker, shooting even tackling I would put him quite some distance ahead of Fletcher for and he is 2yrs younger. D.Gibson is really not that far behind and he is a big robust lad. I can't use the 'age card' for Fletcher in these instances so it leaves me a bit more perplexed.
Regarding the age thing it could also be difficult to ascertain what it is about Fletcher that keeps him in the 1st team of United.
When you consider we tolerate Ronaldo's erratic game because the talent we can all see within him is immense.
Rooney can almost do no wrong. And is up there as one of, if not the most important player we have.
Rossi is emerging, his talent is obvious.
We all know precisely why these two are in the team so young (and why Rossi is being raved about). At any given time you can see why. But where does all this leave Fletcher? What is it that his fans see in him and what is it his detractors see in the same run of games?
It's not just idiots taking a view either. In fact, nearly everyone on the forum has taken a side, most, well respected and proven over time to have sense in their heads. howard is vehement in his pronounced ..um..vitriole of Fletcher ...Johno seems to flit from one side to the other. Motter and Billy are in the Fletcher club and the list of posters taking a camp goes on. Why? What has Fletcher done so right or wrong for such pronounced camps?
What is it about this player that frequently has the fans up in arms?
If you dislike the player - can you not appreciate he is a work in progress?
If you like the player - can you say he offers the team anything that say a QF would not, what is it, for you, that suggests Fletcher is worthy of a starting xi spot at United?
We've always had little arguement tagged on to non-related threads about anything United where a Fletcher row just erupts from nowhere. We've had accomodation of the Fletch and Fletch appreciation threads. But we have never gotten to the bare bones of the issue. People in one camp point to a few of Fletch's best games people in the other camp point to almost every average game Fletcher has. But no one really puts down the tangibles for and against Fletch in no uncertain terms except howard (and his hammer to crush a grape approach)
Should Fletcher be a United starter, why for or against?
Let's keep this civil btw, no silly flame wars. I'm actually quite curious about the true thoughts of both camps because I can see both the reasons for and against the player.
Cheers.