Winning in MLS - Yet another offseason tactics thread

[Sanguine]

Over the years, DC United has been the most successful team in MLS, if you use winning championships as the judging metric. We've won with great teams, and we've won with teams that came together at the right time - We won in the old days, and we won in the new era. What can we do to be successful in MLS in 2006? And by successful, I mean winning trophies. We're not likely to be able to assemble overwhelming talent like the 97-99 teams. If we're going to win this year, we'll have to outplay our opponents on a level field.

Two years ago, we were able to accomplish just that. When we brought in Christian Gomez, Peter Nowak's 3-5-2 began to click and we stormed through the postseason like a well-oiled machine. The MLS of two years ago was dominated by teams playing a base 4-4-2. We were able to exploit this tendency and overcome our opponents by dominating the middle of the field.

Since then, more MLS teams have adopted schemes to clog the middle of the field against us, and indeed to do so in general, and it has rendered the tactic less effective. The league seems to have more teams shifting to a 3-5-2, or other schemes utilizing two defensive midfielders which really inhibits our ability to attack through the middle. The question Peter Nowak should be asking himself this offseason is: "What can I do with the talent at my disposal to defeat these tactics?" and to a lesser extent, "How can I supplement my roster to assist in exploiting these new trends in the league?"

Basic points:

1) You must be able to beat your opposition on the flanks, if the middle is too congested

2) You must maintain strength in the middle to contend with the teams who fill it up in an attempt to dominate it.

It's commonly agreed around here on the DC board that we lack quality and depth at the wide positions in our current/recent 3-5-2. This I agree with. Josh Gros is the only player on the roster who is really at home in this position. He alone has the defensive workrate, stamina and attacking ability to truly be able to control/cover a side of the field by himself. This is the largest weakness on our roster.

The other big weakness on our roster is target forward. Simply put, we don't have one. Moreno has some of the qualities desirable in this position. He's great at controlling long balls in traffic, and is an excellent outlet for our defense, but he tends to drift back into midfield, and lacks the gung-ho spirit going for goal that you want in this position. Eskandarian had this quality, but his concussion problems have possibly stripped him of that ability to throw himself into the fray, if he ever even returns. The two of them together made a good tandem, since they were good complimentary players who fed off each other's strengths. Right now, however, we can't count on Esky being available to gameplan around. If he can play, great, but he's out of the picture as far as system building this offseason. To be brutally honest, we don't have a second forward period, target guy or not.

Another problem area on the roster, while not a weakness, is Central Defense. We have two starter quality players for one position in our current scheme. Neither of them seem to like playing on the left, and Namoff seems to be pretty much locked in on the right. How can we get them both on the field?

The largest strengths on our roster, as I see them, are Central/defensive midfield, and attacking midfield/withdrawn forward. Brian Carroll, Ben Olsen, Clyde Simms in the back and Christian Gomez, Freddy Adu, Jaime Moreno and Santino Quaranta in the front are all good to very good MLS players, and are best utilized in these positions.

Where does this leave us? MLS teams are clogging up the middle of the field, yet our strengths all lie in the middle of the field, and our biggest weakness is on the wings - or is it? We actually have a very strong core of players who are suited to play on the outside, just not outside mids in our current scheme. Freddy Adu and Santino Quaranta are often brought up as players who can fill in on the wings for us, but most agree that it's not the best way to use them. If you're going to play these guys outside, they'll need fullbacks behind them so they're able to spend more energy on the attack.

We haven't played a scheme with fullbacks in 2 years - problem? Not really. Bryan Namoff played there under Hudson, and is probably more suited to that position than his current one. John Wilson is undoubtedly best suited to play the left side in a 4-man back line, and Josh Gros has the size, speed and ability needed to play on either side of the defense. Prideaux can play out there, and so can Stokes, if we do decide to keep them.

If we play with wings and fullbacks, however, we're potentially hurting one of our biggest strengths - Central midfield. And going back to point 2 above, we must maintain this strength to offset the strengths of our opponents.

The answer? 4-3-3/4-5-1. In this scheme, you maintain the central strength of Olsen and Carroll to control opponents attacking through the middle. You get Boswell and Erpen both in the middle of your defense in positions where they're comfortable. You eliminate the primary weakness of the roster by removing the wingbacks from the equation. You get Adu and Quaranta both in positions where they can be successful and on the field together. You maintain the partnership of Gomez and Moreno in the middle of the attack.

One major potential problem of this formation is having Moreno alone up top. It's not his nature to be the lone go-to guy on the front line, running onto balls into the box. But he doesn't have to be. With 3 other pseudo-forwards just behind him, he will have the freedom to drop back while Gomez makes those runs into the box. Envision a scheme where when the ball goes down a flank, Gomez makes the near post run, Moreno settles near the penalty spot, and the opposite side winger makes the back post run. With 4 defacto forwards on the field, the runners can come from several different directions, keeping the defense off-guard.

All 4 of these players, (Moreno, Gomez, Adu, Quaranta) are positionally interchangable. Quaranta may spend time up top with Moreno dropping back to the middle and Gomez going to the right wing. The same thing can happen with Adu on the other side. Of the four, Gomez and Quaranta are the strongest players making runs into the 18, but all 4 are capable of putting the ball away once they get in there, and all are capable to setting up the others. These four should be encouraged to take on a total football mentality, while the rest of the team lays a structured foundation behind them. To win it all this year, we must be able to absorb pressure in the middle of the field, keep from being dominated there, and have the ability to quickly strike back once we've won posession.

To win with our current formation and scheme, we need to add some big pieces to our roster. Playing guys out of position and giving them responsibilities they're not suited for is a recipe for mediocrity. Not adjusting to your competition's adjustments is a recipe for failure. Peter Nowak and DC United should not settle for mediocrity or failure - Sometimes you need to change to grow, and it's time for a change.

The proposed lineup in case anyone hadn't pieced it together:

Namoff - Erpen - Boswell - Gros
--------Olsen --- Carroll
Quaranta --- Gomez ----- Adu
------------ Moreno

[nobletea]

Apparently you have to get up pretty early in the mornin to be that smart. I'm not even close to that smart until about 10am, but stick with me.

Though I essentially agree with you, I'll argue for the sake of it. The biggest problem I see with the 451 proposed is what happens if either Quaranta, Adu, or Moreno are not available? Due to the interchangeable parts approach, I don't see any other players capable of performing close to the level they would, and thus a significant change in attacking style and drop in attacking lethality.

I think this solves the who starts questions, but still does not resolve the fact that the team needs more depth, and so does every other team, and there's almost no way to do that in MLS.

So how does the attack look and function if those players are missing?

[Sachin]

Our secret to winning is to avoid Chicago in the playoffs.

Sachin

[Sachin]

On a more substantive level, I believe that we need to play the early ball in from the flanks into gap between the backline and the d-mids. That will allow our mids to run onto the ball in space or our forwards to receive and lay the ball off.

In an alignment with 3 defenders and 2 D-mids, there are three triangles:

---D-----D----D--

------M----M----

W-------------W

Having the wingers (W) play the ball into the area between the midfielders (M) and the defenders (D), will open up the middle of the field by forcing defenders to come forward and break shape or the D-mids to drop back, opening up the middle of the field. This also removed the need for a traditional target forward and allows us to use our bevy of dribbling and passing forwards who can move the ball quickly through a defense that's lost shape.

Our standard tactic of crossing into the penalty box does not play to our strengths, a topic that has been hashed out here.

Sachin

[griffin1108]

Nice post -- however. One of the keys to this approach is a "total football" approach from Moreno, Gomez, Adu and Quaranta, the four guys on DCU who most clearly do not manifest that tendency. Moreno has too many miles to play that way now; Gomez clearly fades around minute 75 under our current scheme; and Adu and Quaranta sometimes drift away for long stretches of the game. While Adu and Quaranta are young enough to be coached into better habits, Moreno and Gomez are finished products. If one of the criticisms of Nowak last year was his overplaying Moreno and Gomez so that they couldn't perform in the playoffs, then a "total football" approach may exacerbate that problem. While I agree with your analysis regarding the type of personnel DCU has, the problem is the players don't really fit into your solution due to age and conditioning issues.

[ZoomZip]

Gomez clearly fades around minute 75 under our current scheme;

Agreed that Moreno probably couldn't handle the rigors of "total football", but the Gomez slowing down at 75 issue could have been a manifestation of his injury, no? If he's healthy, he might actually be able to withstand the demands you talk about. I also tend to agree with your assessment of Quaranta and Adu.

[DCUSA]

If the fullbacks are up for it (can they get up and down the field to provide more width), it could work. Moreno is a big question mark going into this season no matter where he plays, but I would be tempted to switch Moreno to the right and put Q central. They can interchange position freely, but it would be nice to put it in Q's head that a center forward has to score goals, and it would allow Moreno to do his thing with little pressure to be "the man".

[GrillMaster]

I think winning in the MLS boils down to finishing. International tournaments have showed us the quality that MLS would love to have, but cannot find/afford. That basically leaves MLS stuck with catenaccio defenses or strictly counter-attacking offenses for successful teams.

DC in 2004 won lots of balls in the middle and then managed to put a few in the net at key times toward the end of the season. While not strictly a countering team, one could argue that is precisely our style (get the ball in midfield and turn to attack quickly).

NE went a long way in 2002 because they typically finished one of their few chances and spent the rest of the time defending. In 2005 NE was best at quickly getting a won or intercepted ball upfield with good offensive shape. Joseph or Parkhurst are adept at springing the break. Keeping guys upfield to spring on the break probably hurt them defensively, so when teams were able to possess the ball and score, that presented a very difficult problem for NE.

All this discussion of formation is pretty meaningless, IMO. We are in the era of (almost) "total futbol" so teams adapt on the fly, offensively better than defensively. The teams that get their offensive players to successfully help out when needed on defense and that finish their chances with regularity will win the game on the field.

However, look at Sigi's team in 2006 and you'll see a style kind of like Bolton's. That is, physical players of moderate ability working the ball down low and generating set pieces -- then capitalizing on the set piece, be it a corner or a free outside the 18.

Back to my mantra: FINISH, FINISH, FINISH, FINISH, FINISH, FINISH, FINISH!!!!!!!!! We're not talking about something from Finland, we're talking about putting the little round ball into the very big net with some regularity. Expansion teams aside, defenses in MLS are pretty tough because they've got the fit American athlete who'll throw his body around, and because our country is blessed with beacoup keeper talent.

JMO, YMMV

GM

[John L]

---D-----D----D--

------M----M----

W-------------W

.....

Our standard tactic of crossing into the penalty box does not play to our strengths, a topic that has been hashed out here.

Sachin

This is the formation most other teams would want to see: a 3-2-2. ... Our best 8 against their 11

As far as the tactic of crossing into the penalty box goes, first we need that big target forward - Esky, as untall as he is, was very effective as that solely on the basis of his physical hustle -

Other than that, Sanguine and Sachin are on target and don't really disagree all that much - The nice thing about the use of 4 Fullbacks is that our Outside Halfbacks can concentrate on being Halfbacks: Support and Playmaking and the occassional Overlap as Forward - And that this can easily morph into an attacking 3-5-2

[Hedbal]

I think Sanguine's analysis is spot on. I have argued elsewhere for a four-man back line, because it (1) permits our outside mids to concentrate on the attack knowing that they have cover behind them, and (2) makes us less vulnerable to a thrust up the middle when Erpen has overcommitted or is still airborne after his latest attempt at a spectacular aerial maneuver. It gives us Erpen's fire and Boswell's ice.

The other advantage is that it puts our four most dangerous attackers on the field at the same time: Moreno, Gomez, Quaranta, and Adu. Because the outside fullbacks will be running the line when we have possession the outside mids, Freddy and Santino, don't have to be among the league's elite wingers who live and die by the quality of their crosses into the box. As often as not, they should be the ones receiving the crosses in the middle of the attacking third. The aforementioned Fab Four can do a lot of damage if they have the ball anywhere in the penalty area.

Sure, if we somehow snag a top flight winger, and a quality striker/target forward, then I guess we could persist in the 3-5-2. But a 4-5-1 or some variation thereon sure makes sense to me if we stick with our present roster.

[Sachin]

This is the formation most other teams would want to see: a 3-2-2. ... Our best 8 against their 11

As far as the tactic of crossing into the penalty box goes, first we need that big target forward - Esky, as untall as he is, was very effective as that solely on the basis of his physical hustle -

Other than that, Sanguine and Sachin are on target and don't really disagree all that much - The nice thing about the use of 4 Fullbacks is that our Outside Halfbacks can concentrate on being Halfbacks: Support and Playmaking and the occassional Overlap as Forward - And that this can easily morph into an attacking 3-5-2

I'm sorry... I was unclear, the defenders and mids in that diagram are the opposing team's. Our W's are attacking their Ds & Ms.

Sachin

[thecheat48]

Apparently you have to get up pretty early in the mornin to be that smart. I'm not even close to that smart until about 10am, but stick with me.

Though I essentially agree with you, I'll argue for the sake of it. The biggest problem I see with the 451 proposed is what happens if either Quaranta, Adu, or Moreno are not available? Due to the interchangeable parts approach, I don't see any other players capable of performing close to the level they would, and thus a significant change in attacking style and drop in attacking lethality.

I think this solves the who starts questions, but still does not resolve the fact that the team needs more depth, and so does every other team, and there's almost no way to do that in MLS.

So how does the attack look and function if those players are missing?

This has been a big topic of conversation amongst my groups of friends/fans.

In the 4-5-1/4-3-3, DCU has a bunch of options:

Q can play the striker or on the right.
Adu can play in the center, on the left (and up top if need be)
Gomez would always play in the center unless he is hurt.
Moreno can play as the striker or in the center.
Esky would the striker if he can go.
Walker can play the striker and I think out on the right in this formation.
Filomeno, I imagine, would mainly the striker.
Nickell would play the striker, but I'm not sure.
Van Sicklen, my guess, out on the left or right.

[nobletea]

This has been a big topic of conversation amongst my groups of friends/fans.

In the 4-5-1/4-3-3, DCU has a bunch of options:

Q can play the striker or on the right.
Adu can play in the center, on the left (and up top if need be)
Gomez would always play in the center unless he is hurt.
Moreno can play as the striker or in the center.
Esky would the striker if he can go.
Walker can play the striker and I think out on the right in this formation.
Filomeno, I imagine, would mainly the striker.
Nickell would play the striker, but I'm not sure.
Van Sicklen, my guess, out on the left or right. The first four in your list are not in question, Q, Adu, Moreno, and Gomez are the orignal functional ideal attacking players in those formations and virtually interchangeable. However, Esky is a huge question mark. Filomeno is no longer on the roster at the moment. Nickell and Sick are not very viable options for all we know at this point. That leaves Walker as the lone wildcard player to replace any one of the original four. That's not exactly a great option really, and would likely lead to a tremendous drop in attacking power for the team, basically rendering this formation useless. In a perfect world, this is our starting lineup, sure, I agree. But without additional personnel (which may in fact allow us to stay 352 anyway), we would constantly be shifing back and forth as players are absent.

[Sanguine]

The first four in your list are not in question, Q, Adu, Moreno, and Gomez are the orignal functional ideal attacking players in those formations and virtually interchangeable. However, Esky is a huge question mark. Filomeno is no longer on the roster at the moment. Nickell and Sick are not very viable options for all we know at this point. That leaves Walker as the lone wildcard player to replace any one of the original four. That's not exactly a great option really, and would likely lead to a tremendous drop in attacking power for the team, basically rendering this formation useless. In a perfect world, this is our starting lineup, sure, I agree. But without additional personnel (which may in fact allow us to stay 352 anyway), we would constantly be shifing back and forth as players are absent.


to an extent I agree, but with our current personnel, I think we're forced to make those types of concessions to get our top guys on the field in the 3-5-2. At least one, and possibly two of our top guys are forced to play out of position, or worse, forced to the bench in the current system. I think you design a system to take advantage of your personnel first, and fill backup gaps and roles through acquisitions, rather than being forced to fill starting positions through the draft or foreign acquisitions. That, coupled with recent tendencies by other MLS teams tells me this formation will work.

Generally speaking, I dislike this formation, but I think we're in a situation that it is our best chance to win.

[Real Mobile]

The good old 3-5-2
--- Namoff - Boswell - Erpen
------ Olsen - Carroll
Quaranta - Gomez - Gros
------- Moreno- Adu

and the radical new 4-5-1
Namoff - Boswell - Erpen - Gros
--------Olsen --- Carroll
Quaranta --- Gomez ----- Adu
------------ Moreno

Oh yes, they're just too different. :rolleyes:

[griffin1108]

Nobletea asks the question we really haven't discussed, who is on the bench today in the 3-5-2, that would start and be a difference maker in another formation? The Boswell/Erpen/Prideaux/Wilson/Namoff issue really doesn't seem to hinge on the type of formation. Boswell probably can't play outside due to lack of pace, Erpen probably can, but does he want to? If he does, then he clearly starts over Prideaux/Wilson and Prideaux is moved to another team because he is more expensive than Wilson.

After that, it's the usual suspects playing in midfield and the forward lines. If we already are playing a version of "total football", then this discussion just may be another "hot stove league" discussion that carries us through the dry spell until April.

[Sanguine]

The good old 3-5-2
--- Namoff - Boswell - Erpen
------ Olsen - Carroll
Quaranta - Gomez - Gros
------- Moreno- Adu

and the radical new 4-5-1
Namoff - Boswell - Erpen - Gros
--------Olsen --- Carroll
Quaranta --- Gomez ----- Adu
------------ Moreno

Oh yes, they're just too different. :rolleyes:

I can draw up 20 formations where things look similar in a diagram, but that doesn't mean they work the same way on the field. In diagram 1, Quaranta is playing a wingback, and in 2, he's playing a forward. If you think they're the same thing, so be it.

[Section106]

I wonder if Erpen could become a defensive midfielder in the 352? I still want a 451, it gets our best offensive talent forward without sacrificing defense.

[Real Mobile]

I can draw up 20 formations where things look similar in a diagram, but that doesn't mean they work the same way on the field. In diagram 1, Quaranta is playing a wingback, and in 2, he's playing a forward. If you think they're the same thing, so be it.
My post wasn't intended to be derogatory. I probably should have added more to my previous post, but I wanted to keep it simple. I like this thread and think your posts are intelligent and make for interesting reading.

You are quite right in that these diagrams don't really tell the full story. I am just trying to show that formations can be tweaked and blended to accommodate the available players.

PN can keep his sacred 3-5-2, and put the fantastic four on the field together. Also, Boswell gets back in the game, which is good. DC really needs his size in the back to help Nick handle the high stuff. He makes difference on corners and set plays too. In this arrangement, Gros needs to think defense first, and Tino can be more attack oriented.

You can get pretty much the same thing coming out with the 4-5-1, but now Gros and Adu are more attack oriented from their assigned positions. Gros can be a Roberto Carlos sort of full back. :D

[Real Mobile]

I wonder if Erpen could become a defensive midfielder in the 352? I still want a 451, it gets our best offensive talent forward without sacrificing defense.
I've been wondering the same thing about Erpen.

I also wonder how BC, (now maybe JC too), might fair at outside MF.