Vatican: "Intelligent Design isn't Science"

[christopher d]

From the USA Today: http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2006-01-18-vatican-article_x.htm

The Vatican newspaper has published an article saying "intelligent design" is not science and that teaching it alongside evolutionary theory in school classrooms only creates confusion.

The article in Tuesday's editions of L'Osservatore Romano was the latest in a series of interventions by Vatican officials — including the pope — on the issue that has dominated headlines in the United States.

The author, Fiorenzo Facchini, a professor of evolutionary biology at the University of Bologna, laid out the scientific rationale for Darwin's theory of evolution, saying that in the scientific world, biological evolution "represents the interpretative key of the history of life on Earth."

He lamented that certain American "creationists" had brought the debate back to the "dogmatic" 1800s, and said their arguments weren't science but ideology.

ID backers: is this a blow to your efforts?

Others: is this a blow to your minds? The body that excommunicated scientists for saying the earth revolved around the sun now saying ID is bunk?

Fascinating turn of events...

[DJPoopypants]

I read the NYTimes report. some key things;

1) its not official vatican policy
2) recent other pronouncements by key vatican figures completely reject "evolutionism" - the belief that evolution always procedes by unguided random mutations

Overall, I see the catholic church staking out a compromise here - accepting science and many proven aspects of evolutionary theory, but making sure there can be (not must be, but can be) some place for God in it all.

So this is kinda like a good fences, good neighbors announcement. As long as people try to keep science and religion apart (seemingly the bilateral intention of the article), there will be less conflict in a fight that the vatican may not have the upper hand.

It is good to see the church take a position where they do not seem overly threatened by logic, science, rationality, etc.

[riverplate]

In 'Design' vs. Darwinism, Darwin Wins Point in Rome (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/19/science/sciencespecial2/19evolution.html) - N.Y. Times

ROME, Jan. 18 - The official Vatican newspaper published an article this week labeling as "correct" the recent decision by a judge in Pennsylvania that intelligent design should not be taught as a scientific alternative to evolution.

"If the model proposed by Darwin is not considered sufficient, one should search for another," Fiorenzo Facchini, a professor of evolutionary biology at the University of Bologna, wrote in the Jan. 16-17 edition of the paper, L'Osservatore Romano.

"But it is not correct from a methodological point of view to stray from the field of science while pretending to do science," he wrote, calling intelligent design unscientific. "It only creates confusion between the scientific plane and those that are philosophical or religious."

[Shurik]

Wait 'till Jesus hears this!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/space/20060119/sc_space/humanearsevolvedfromancientfishgills

[afgrijselijkheid]

very interesting stuff

[Mr. Bee]

I'd like to hear their definition of "science"

[Anthony]

If anyone actually took the time to read the Catholic Church's position on this for, well, something like 100 years, it would be no surprise.

BTW, did you know that what is now called the "Big Bang" theory was originally postulated by a Belgian astrophysicist who was also a Catholic priest? He correctly estimated that it occured more than 10B years ago. He theroized, incorrectly, that cosmic rays were a lingering result of the Big Bang.

[DJPoopypants]

The catholic church has been relatively pro-science for awhile.

They never argued with scientists who discovered that thin layers of sheep intestine or latex are effective barriers to blood-borne diseases.

But when an engineer took that scientific discovery and took it into the realm of, uh, applied science...that's a different story.

[Shurik]

Anthony, drop that Dan Brown book right now! You don't know were it's been.

[Anthony]

Anthony, drop that Dan Brown book right now! You don't know were it's been.

Who is Dan Brown?

[yossarian]

If anyone actually took the time to read the Catholic Church's position on this for, well, something like 100 years, it would be no surprise.

BTW, did you know that what is now called the "Big Bang" theory was originally postulated by a Belgian astrophysicist who was also a Catholic priest? He correctly estimated that it occured more than 10B years ago. He theroized, incorrectly, that cosmic rays were a lingering result of the Big Bang.

Exactly. Or if anyone was familiar with a Jesuit education.

[MikeLastort2]

Others: is this a blow to your minds? The body that excommunicated scientists for saying the earth revolved around the sun now saying ID is bunk?

I went to Catholic grade school and Catholic high school. Evolution was taught in science classes. The Roman Catholic church has supported evolution as fact for a long time.

[Anthony]

http://www.catholiceducation.org/images/Science/lemaitre4.jpg

The fellow in the collar is Father Georges Lemaitre, the Belgian priest who first postulated the Big Bang ("The Day Without Yesterday"). The guy next to him is some sort of fellow scientist who was not a believer in the theory.

Religion and science are really the same thing, trying to make order out of the seemingly orderlessness of the universe. Or as Frank Herbert wrote in one of the Dune books (IIRC) -- "Science is the attempt to understand the lawlessness of the universe. Religion is the attempt to find man's place in that lawlessness."

[MiamiAce]

From the USA Today: http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2006-01-18-vatican-article_x.htm



ID backers: is this a blow to your efforts?

Others: is this a blow to your minds? The body that excommunicated scientists for saying the earth revolved around the sun now saying ID is bunk?

Fascinating turn of events...

Even more fascinating that you seem to be completely ignorant of the real story regarding the Galileo affair. But of course I don't blame you. You only pass along modern popular one-sided notions as fact without investigation. But as one John Cardinal Newman pointed out once, what's even more fascinating concerning this popular belief that the Church has somehow obstructed the advance of scientific inquiry throughout the ages, the Galileo incident, even if it was every bit as bad as people think it was, is practically the only example that ever comes to mind.

I'd love to write the whole truth out here, but it'd be too lengthy. I leave you with the duty of finding yourself. I'll give you a hint though: start with the man who came before Galileo, Polish astronomer Nicholas Copernicus (Copernican astronomy - Sun-centered Solar System), who was favorably invited by Pope Clement VII to give public lectures on his studies at the Vatican. Here's also a quote by Galileo when he first went to Rome upon his new findings on the Copernican model, "I have been received and shown favor by many illustrious cardinals, prelates, amd princes of this city". It's also worth mentioning that while there was initially no Catholic censure on the Copernican system, Protestants viciously attacked the whole science for its alleged opposition to Holy Scripture.

And btw, while I do think that many men in today's world are highly ignorant of theology, I agree that Intelligent Design should not be taught as a science in scientific circles (even though it has theoretical value but still not scientific proof).

[monop_poly]

Wait 'till Jesus hears this!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/space/20060119/sc_space/humanearsevolvedfromancientfishgills

It's good to see a bunch of behind-the-curve scientists catch up with the creation order in Genesis:

Day 5 - fish/birds
Day 6 - creeping/crawling/walking animals

I kid. Really.

[christopher d]

"Science is the attempt to understand the lawlessness of the universe. Religion is the attempt to find man's place in that lawlessness."
Once we can get rid of that "Iron Fist" thing, the above would be a kick-ass tagline for this forum :)

[sch2383]

I went to a Catholic high school, I believe the term that was kicked around was guided evolution. But God was never mentioned in my biology class, aside from prayer before class and the infamous "my God that elephant has a 5th leg" comment.

[Samarkand]

I agree that Intelligent Design should not be taught as a science in scientific circles (even though it has theoretical value but still not scientific proof).
What theoretical value does it have? Scientifically, it is not a theory so it has no value. Zero, zip, null and nada.

In scientific terms a 'theory' is a whole lot more than a 'damn good idea.' Even using the word in the vernacular sense, ID remains a fairytale. In a scientific sense, ID has as much standing and validity as trying to discover what type of accents the three little pigs had.

[christopher d]

In a scientific sense, ID has as much standing and validity as trying to discover what type of accents the three little pigs had.
English. It was an English fairy tale from the 19th C.

Source (http://www.pitt.edu/~dash/type0124.html)

[DJPoopypants]

English. It was an English fairy tale from the 19th C.

Source (http://www.pitt.edu/~dash/type0124.html)

So what accent did they speak? Scouse? Manc? Cockney? One of each?