Here we go again...

[arthur d]

Fock you. Amoroso deserved the shoving Lehmann gave him in that match.

When has Lehmann ever done anything good in his career?

The man has won the UEFA Cup and been to a UEFA Cup Final, won a Bundesliga title, won a Premiership title and was Arsenal's hero in last year's FA Cup final.

Word of advice. Don't talk about s#it you obviously know nothing about.

He was also a liability for Arsenal for most of last season, and played so badly that he was benched and the hapless Almunia played instead of him. Sure, he has had good phases (like this season for Arsenal, although from what I've seen Kahn is still clearly better), but the words Lehmann and howler have become almost synonymous here in England. Not to mention his terrible time in Italy. All in all, I just don't trust him. And he's crap at corners and crosses.

BTW you might consider being slightly less personal in your comments, footy. It's not very pretty. The guy was just stating his opinion, no need to attack him.

[footyfan1]

BTW you might consider being slightly less personal in your comments, footy. It's not very pretty. The guy was just stating his opinion, no need to attack him.


He wasn't just stating an opinion, that was an attack on Lehmann.

He wasn't asking what Lehmann has done in his career, that was a line insuinating that Lehmann has done nothing.

I corrected him. Did I need to be as "rough" as I was. No. But I don't apologize for it either.

Funny that even you focused on the bad phases in Lehmann's career, neither of which lasted very long, yet when Kahn has them, such as 2002-2003 and 2003-2004, it's just swept under the rug.

In the two years before Lehmann left the Bundesliga, he was the league's #1 rated keeper by a good margin. Of course, when it came to the national team, that meant nothing.

And how much of Lehmann's "bad phase" last season was caused by Arsenal's s#itty defense??

It's commonly known that Premiership keepers routinely take the fall for defensive failings.........

[arthur d]

He wasn't just stating an opinion, that was an attack on Lehmann.

He wasn't asking what Lehmann has done in his career, that was a line insuinating that Lehmann has done nothing.

I corrected him. Did I need to be as "rough" as I was. No. But I don't apologize for it either.

Funny that even you focused on the bad phases in Lehmann's career, neither of which lasted very long, yet when Kahn has them, such as 2002-2003 and 2003-2004, it's just swept under the rug.

In the two years before Lehmann left the Bundesliga, he was the league's #1 rated keeper by a good margin. Of course, when it came to the national team, that meant nothing.

And how much of Lehmann's "bad phase" last season was caused by Arsenal's s#itty defense??

It's commonly known that Premiership keepers routinely take the fall for defensive failings.........

Sure, he attacked Lehmann. You attacked him. Whatever floats your boat.

I agree that Lehmann, or lemon as they call him here, got too much stick for Arsenal's bad defence. But I watched a lot of Arsenal games last year where he looked very dodgy. He can be great of course, but I just feel that he is too unreliable, and loses it sometimes. Arsenal would have certainly sold him had they had the money to buy a good replacement. Did you read the comments about him on the Arsenal board?

Having said this, I'd have called up Enke or Weidenfeller, but like somebody said, it's kind of a German tradition to hang onto the old goalkeepers past their sell by date.

[footyfan1]

Sure, he attacked Lehmann. You attacked him. Whatever floats your boat.

I also answered his snide remarks with a few of my own, but all right.



I agree that Lehmann, or lemon as they call him here, got too much stick for Arsenal's bad defence. But I watched a lot of Arsenal games last year where he looked very dodgy. He can be great of course, but I just feel that he is too unreliable, and loses it sometimes. Arsenal would have certainly sold him had they had the money to buy a good replacement. Did you read the comments about him on the Arsenal board?


Name a keeper who's been "completely reliable" over an entire career. Flawless. Name one. I have photos of Kahn's howlers. I pull them up whenever I need a laugh.

I don't need Arsenal fans on this board to tell me what to think. I review things on my own and I ask Arsenal fans who are realistic about things. I know quite a few of them.

None of them are going to convince me that Arsenal "didn't have the money" to replace Lehmann. They had it this off-season. They have it now and they had it last season. Lehmann took the fall to cover their s#itty defense. In the end, so did Alumnia.

You won't ever catch me saying Lehmann doesn't make mistakes. That's just silly to say.

But there was an almost three-year period that Lehmann was head and shoulders above Kahn and it did him no good in the national set-up because Bayern runs the DFB.

And that's why Sepp Maier isn't Germany's goalkeeping coach today. He refused to consider opening up that position to competition. As far as he was concerned, it was Kahn's for life. Voeller didn't have the balls to question or challenge him.

Lehmann should have had Germany #1 in 2003. Lehmann was certainly the better keeper of the two going into Euro 2004.

This is why you see so many comments on the issue from Lehmann. He was blatently robbed when the position should have been his. So no, I don't blame Lehmann one bit for being bitter. Not one bit.

It's also a reason I'll defend him when he needs to be defended.



Having said this, I'd have called up Enke or Weidenfeller, but like somebody said, it's kind of a German tradition to hang onto the old goalkeepers past their sell by date.


There, we completely agree.

As I've been saying, if Klinsmann stays coach, I don't believe Hildebrand will be in the Germany setup come Euro 2008. I'm thinking Enke, Weidenfeller, and Wiese will be fighting it out for Germany #1 if Klinsi stays around. And I think the competition is good.

[ForeverRed]

In all fairness, Lehman had an outstanding 2005 and has been really really consistent for Arsenal this season and is a big reason they aren't doing even worse at the moment.

[arthur d]

None of them are going to convince me that Arsenal "didn't have the money" to replace Lehmann. They had it this off-season. They have it now and they had it last season. Lehmann took the fall to cover their s#itty defense. In the end, so did Alumnia.

I don't agree. Jens simply made too many mistakes last season (especially in the Champions League, good grief!). I agree that Arsenal's defence could have done much better, but he made several crazy challenges outside the box and always seemed unsure on crosses and corners. As for Almunia, he's just terrible. Lehmann was simply lucky that there was no better replacement, otherwise he would have never played again. As for Arsenal having lots of money, why didn't they buy any expensive reinforcements then? Because Arsene Wenger lost the plot? Well, maybe.

In fact, I think Jens got too much credit for Arsenal's unbeaten streak two years ago, and that's maybe why Wenger is a bit too fond of him.

And that's why Sepp Maier isn't Germany's goalkeeping coach today. He refused to consider opening up that position to competition. As far as he was concerned, it was Kahn's for life. Voeller didn't have the balls to question or challenge him.

Sepp was sacrificed for making a few very clumsy remarks. He thought Kahn was better than Lehmann, and said that in a way not too dissimilar to your way of defending Lehmann, i.e. with 'fock you's mixed in. You'd also be sacked as a goalkeeping coach of the german team I think... :)

Lehmann should have had Germany #1 in 2003. Lehmann was certainly the better keeper of the two going into Euro 2004.

I agree with this, Kahn had a bad phase back then. Luckily, he is much better now.

Anyway, this is a non-issue. We know that Kahn is going to start in the WC, and Kinsmann should get his act together and tell people about it.

[Fsquid]

Lehmann will be forgotten in 15 years. He's a ********.

[eissman]

But there was an almost three-year period that Lehmann was head and shoulders above Kahn and it did him no good in the national set-up because Bayern runs the DFB.

The other shoe has landed. :rolleyes:

This move was clearly too predictable Footy. As you know, I also love your insightful "other-side-of-the-fence" mentality. Hell, the truth hurts sometimes, especially when the a fan such as myself couldn't even tell you the half of it. Nine times out of ten it is all news to me.

I don't know if your coffee wasn't strong enough mate, or you are sleep deprived, but man, you are on a roll today my friend. Add a little sunshine in there and lighten up. So you hate Bayern... we get it that... it is well documented all over these boards. The guy made a comment he can't back up, you in turn crushed him with your concise knowledge of the situation -- end of story.

I can at least admit my comments are purely based on pure emotion, if you can call it that. I just don't like Lehmann as a person (as respectfully, you and I established back yonder)... I don't know, there is something about him. I, however, do not doubt his ability in the net... that was never mentioned. I just hate players that use the public forum to air their matters - it strikes me as classless, just let your playing do the talk.

That being said, Kahn I am not sure is the answer either, although he is having a stellar season so far. Funny, here in the States the American football commentators always talk about how players are playing at there best in a "contract year" (they then get signed to some large amount of cash and proceed to smell up the place the next season)... perhaps the same can be said of the likes of Kahn and company -- perform your best when it is most needed and carries the greatest reward. Ludicrous, I know.

[footyfan1]

I don't agree. Jens simply made too many mistakes last season (especially in the Champions League, good grief!). I agree that Arsenal's defence could have done much better, but he made several crazy challenges outside the box and always seemed unsure on crosses and corners. As for Almunia, he's just terrible. Lehmann was simply lucky that there was no better replacement, otherwise he would have never played again. As for Arsenal having lots of money, why didn't they buy any expensive reinforcements then? Because Arsene Wenger lost the plot? Well, maybe.

In fact, I think Jens got too much credit for Arsenal's unbeaten streak two years ago, and that's maybe why Wenger is a bit too fond of him.


Oh come on! There were quite a few matches in that run where Lehmann saved their asses. We both know that. He was a big part of that run. But yes, he did screw up afterwards, paid the price and bounced back. Not the first time he's done it in his career and he's not the only one.




Sepp was sacrificed for making a few very clumsy remarks. He thought Kahn was better than Lehmann, and said that in a way not too dissimilar to your way of defending Lehmann, i.e. with 'fock you's mixed in. You'd also be sacked as a goalkeeping coach of the german team I think... :)

That was only part of it. Before it got to that point, Klinsmann talked about opening up the goalkeeping competition and Meier was not silent about his thoughts of Jens Lehmann and even said the job was "rightfully" Kahn's at one point. The notion of Lehmann even possibly being as good as Kahn was unfathomable to him. Like it is to some on these boards.

Anyway, it only got to the point of Meier being fired when Klinsmann directed that the competition be opened up, Meier refused to acknowledge his new boss' wishes and Klinsmann canned his ass.

There was a lot more involved than just "bad language".





I agree with this, Kahn had a bad phase back then. Luckily, he is much better now.

The question is is he much better than Lehmann? You probably think the answer is yes. I disagree. I think their performances in the warm-up matches back up that opinion.

But that's just it. It's a matter of opinion.





Anyway, this is a non-issue. We know that Kahn is going to start in the WC, and Kinsmann should get his act together and tell people about it.

Is he? Are we sure? I'd agree, but I don't know. Not with Klinsi.

[The Old Lady Hertha]

Sounds like a NT question....so this'll be moved.

[The Old Lady Hertha]

All this talk about the goalkeepers...erm I think when it comes WC time, the GK problem is the last of their problems.

[footyfan1]

All this talk about the goalkeepers...erm I think when it comes WC time, the GK problem is the last of their problems.


GREAT POINT!!!

[ForeverRed]

GREAT POINT!!!

Absolutley, we should be worried about whats going on in front of our goalkeepers.....nevermind the dilema of how our strikers will score against teams like Holland, Italy,Czechs after the group stages....

[The Old Lady Hertha]

Absolutley, we should be worried about whats going on in front of our goalkeepers.....nevermind the dilema of how our strikers will score against teams like Holland, Italy,Czechs after the group stages....

I think whats more worrisome is our central defense partnership...I think that one of the main reasons why we've had such a gk "problem" is because they never have a set defensive pair set...and if we do have one "set," do I really have confidence if they face "Magic" Zurawski or Wanchope, nevermind Henry, Ruud or Sheva or Brasil...

Any gk can be made a fool if his men protecting him are shite.

[KarlMai]

I can at least admit my comments are purely based on pure emotion, if you can call it that. I just don't like Lehmann as a person (as respectfully, you and I established back yonder)... I don't know, there is something about him. I, however, do not doubt his ability in the net... that was never mentioned. I just hate players that use the public forum to air their matters - it strikes me as classless, just let your playing do the talk.



I don't really like Lehmann, either. But his opinions are often intelligent, so I have at least some respect for him.

Anyway, what I wanted to point out: It is not only Lehmann who uses the public forum. The media has shaped Kahn so often to be the "titan", the super-human being, and he is willingly a part of that. His advertising and TV spots work with that formula, his interviews want to present him in that light, when he is talking about mental strength etc.pp. He tries also to create his own image. And the Bayern leaders are doing that, too. Heck, when even DFB President MV basically says "it must be Kahn because they play in Munich", so it basically seems there is no other option because of fate and destiny, i.e. Kahn is destined to be Number one... ;) I don't really think it is evil for Lehmann to remember "Yes, that's all fine, but performance should decide".

The pro-Kahn bias in the media Lehmann is talking about is not all just paranoia from him.

And Kahn always wanted to project the image that he is strongest when attacked, that he is the man who loves pressure and is fired by pressure. So how is it then bad when he gets pressure from Klinsmann?

[arthur d]

GREAT POINT!!!

I completely agree with this.

[footyfan1]

I don't really like Lehmann, either. But his opinions are often intelligent, so I have at least some respect for him.

Anyway, what I wanted to point out: It is not only Lehmann who uses the public forum. The media has shaped Kahn so often to be the "titan", the super-human being, and he is willingly a part of that. His advertising and TV spots work with that formula, his interviews want to present him in that light, when he is talking about mental strength etc.pp. He tries also to create his own image. And the Bayern leaders are doing that, too. Heck, when even DFB President MV basically says "it must be Kahn because they play in Munich", so it basically seems there is no other option because of fate and destiny, i.e. Kahn is destined to be Number one... ;) I don't really think it is evil for Lehmann to remember "Yes, that's all fine, but performance should decide".

The pro-Kahn bias in the media Lehmann is talking about is not all just paranoia from him.

And Kahn always wanted to project the image that he is strongest when attacked, that he is the man who loves pressure and is fired by pressure. So how is it then bad when he gets pressure from Klinsmann?


That has to be the best, most unbiased Lehmann opinion I've ever seen anywhere.

Great posting!!!

[arthur d]

That has to be the best, most unbiased Lehmann opinion I've ever seen anywhere.

Great posting!!!

Yep, that was a good post. Then again, didn't Kahn actually say that the competition in the national team helped him to become better again? I don't have any sources for this though, just a vague memory.

[Pfeife]

Yep, that was a good post. Then again, didn't Kahn actually say that the competition in the national team helped him to become better again? I don't have any sources for this though, just a vague memory.

I don't know about that, but I know that Kahn said: "Maybe we should stick to the goalkeeper rotation also during the tournament. That would be something new at least!"

[Zeppelin]

The Q is, will Khan be at his top form next year ? it's still 6 months to go, things might change, including players' playing form, on the other hand Lehmann has been showing his quality lately....