How much should we accomodate Fletcher?

[haven]

Fletcher, obviously, is a talented player. I always thought he did certain things well, but questioned his value to an elite team because of certain deficiencies. Now, I'm willing to say this: in the right system, Darren Fletcher is an excellent player.

My problem now is this: he isn't a good fit for some offensive systems. In the 4-4-2 - which most of us player - Daren is not a good fit. He's not a box-to-box player. He's not a DM. He's not an AM.

As Motterman said first, he's kind of like Pirlo. He sprays balls from deep. And passes well in space. But he doesn't make good, quick decisions, doesn't tackle well, and doesn't have the pure technique to be the AMC.

So, should we accomodate him? Should we say, "to be damned with the 4-4-2...Darren is good enough to demand accomodation." In the 4-3-3 - Darren is a valuable player. In the 4-5-1 - Darren is a valuable player.

But in the 4-4-2 - you need a player like Keane, Vieira, or Robson. I don't think Darren can be that player (though some would disagree).

Would you be willing to forfeit the 4-4-2 to accomodate Fletcher's talents?

[Dark Savante]

An interesting thread idea, but, a team as large as Mancheseter United will never move pieces to fit a player like Fletcher in and optimise him. In fact, we didn't even do that for Rooney!! and had him dumped at RW for most of last term, which was an utter waste. It's only because our results were not up to the par plus performance and Keane being injured that we even switched to the 4-4-2.

I really don't think we'd change systems for any player except Scholes and even he might not be afforded that privalege. Keano is the only player I've seen an entire system changed for actually.

We last moved pieces around for Veron before that, but it was different, he was functioning by Keane's rules really. I think Fletcher is just going to have to get by. He's not special enough to have the team changed for him alone. Sorry, I know this isn't quite what you hoped for with this thread, but I seriously doubt SAF would ever entertain the thought of utilising others to help Fletcher function better.

[haven]

An interesting thread idea, but, a team as large as Mancheseter United will never move pieces to fit a player like Fletcher in and optimise him. In fact, we didn't even do that for Rooney!! and had him dumped at RW for most of last term, which was an utter waste. It's only because our results were not up to the par plus performance and Keane being injured that we even switched to the 4-4-2.

I really don't think we'd change systems for any player except Scholes and even he might not be afforded that privalege. Keano is the only player I've seen an entire system changed for actually.

We last moved pieces around for Veron before that, but it was different, he was functioning by Keane's rules really. I think Fletcher is just going to have to get by. He's not special enough to have the team changed for him alone. Sorry, I know this isn't quite what you hoped for with this thread, but I seriously doubt SAF would ever entertain the thought of utilising others to help Fletcher function better.

In an optimum situation, I'd completely agree. But that's if we really had other good options. Looking at our central midfield options, we have...ermm...two really good players. One is a great player - Scholes. The other is very good, but limited - Fletcher. Fortunately for Man Utd, we can accomodate Fletcher in a system that works for Scholes. But if you play both of them, you have to do one of two things:

(a) Completely isolate the CBs against the opposition's defense. Perhaps signing Vidic is a recognition of this fact.

(b) Play three midfielders.

I'm not sure if either of these is the best thing to do right now. To build a side that's solid, you need to be able to stop the other team from scoring. To build a truly great team, you need a dominating attack.

Well - we can't do both right now, because we don't have a MC who can control the game. Scholes is phenomenal in attack - but if you even ask him to play defense, you play against his strengths. After that - what are we going to do? Fletcher can neither be a destroyer, nor can he track back and serve as a forward threat (like Keane once could 3-4 years ago).

I'm not sure accomodating Fletcher is a long-term option...but this year? It might be the only way to play the two CMs we have that don't suck.

[JC7rox]

If we buy a CM this summer, someone is going to have to accomodate Fletcher with a warm seat on the bench.

[benni...]

I actually think that, hoenstly, the 4-3-3 wasnt as bad as ppl say. Especially if we get a class center midfield in the summer. It would work out well for us. Having Evra and Neville pressing forward from teh fullback positions, with Vidic and Rio at the back... Maybe a center mid, maybe a defensive midfielder. Which Diarra is. If we get him, he could be our defensive midfielder, with Fletcher and Scholes doing what Essien and Lampard do for Chelsea, or what Deco and Xavi do for Barca. Then RVN as the striker, and Rooney and Ronaldo as the two forwards, who have teh freedom to roam.

That is just my opinion, and thats certainly how we outplayed most teams last term. It would give Ronaldo more freedom, and wouldnt tie him down to the wide right midfield role where defense is very important. Rooney could drift in and wherever he wanted to, and RVN woudl not be isolated as long as we have Diarra holding, infront of the back four, and Scholes and Fletcher(or some other center mid with a creative spark). Its almost pretty much how we played in 2001. We had Veron Keane and Becks roaming around in the center, and if Scholes wasnt on the left, he was just off Ruud, and Giggs roamed the pitch, with our fullbacks overlapping and pressing forward all the time.

Now in relation with Fletcher, he wouldnt have to work as hard, running back defending, and then getting into the attack, after he just had to sprint to cover space, after a neat 1-2 was executed.

[benni...]

All in all, it wouldnt be Just fletcher being accomadated to, it would be Rooney, Ronaldo, Scholes Fletcher, and the New midfielder.

[GrodZilla]

All in all, it wouldnt be Just fletcher being accomadated to, it would be Rooney, Ronaldo, Scholes Fletcher, and the New midfielder.


The 4-3-3 isn't a bad system but it fails to accomodate Rooney, it fails to accomodate Giggs and the way we played it, it was too easy to defend against us, but may teams use it very well...

[Teso Dos Bichos]

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/5452/head3yt.gif

[benni...]

The 4-3-3 isn't a bad system but it fails to accomodate Rooney, it fails to accomodate Giggs and the way we played it, it was too easy to defend against us, but may teams use it very well...

Why should we have to accomodate Giggs? His career is nearly over. After this season, i wouldnt count on his much, as he has already showing his decline, and personally, i dont want to go through, what we are doing now with Keane, with Giggs.

the 433, Rooney doenst have to hug the touch line, he can drft, as can Ronaldo.

[Motterman]

Why should we accomodate Fletcher?

Because half of the forum would have nobody to blame when things go wrong.

[Sofabloke]

I really don't think we'd change systems for any player except Scholes and even he might not be afforded that privalege. Keano is the only player I've seen an entire system changed for actually.

I think we have changed systems for a player, that player is Rooney and the system is 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1 if you are being pedantic ;) Amen to this!

I think haven is dead-on with his analysis of this showing up Fletcher's weaknesses.

I think the solution is to do the bleedin' obvious and buy some better quality central midfield players and hope that SAF is correct in his analysis that in two years time when Fletcher is more physically developed he can make the grade. Until that time Fletcher should be used as a squad player (ie get the odd outing in cup games and as a sub).

[Dark Savante]

I think we have changed systems for a player, that player is Rooney and the system is 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1 if you are being pedantic ;) Amen to this!

I think haven is dead-on with his analysis of this showing up Fletcher's weaknesses.

I think the solution is to do the bleedin' obvious and buy some better quality central midfield players and hope that SAF is correct in his analysis that in two years time when Fletcher is more physically developed he can make the grade. Until that time Fletcher should be used as a squad player (ie get the odd outing in cup games and as a sub).
We didn't change because of Rooney though. We changed because Keane was out injured and therefore the 4-3-3 wasn't a neccsity but rather something we did to keep shape for when Keano returned. Don't forget Rooney barely missed a game in all the time he's been here and for the majority of that he was tosse aside to the wing in a useless position.

I agree with your CM thing.

[Mac_Howard]

Hell how our standards have dropped. The idea that we should even consider accomodating an average player like Fletcher is ludicrous. The guy is riddled with flaws:

1) his passing is inconsistent
2) there's no strength to his tackling
3) he's easily knocked off the ball
4) he has no pace
5) he has no acceleration
6) he changes direction like a tractor
7) he can't shoot

He puts in lots of effort and he reads the game well but then his physique lets him down. At times it looks as though he has no control over those legs which fly off in different directions reminiscent of the newly born Bambi.

Accomodate him? Dear me, guys!

[jayro75]

Why should we accomodate Fletcher?

Because half of the forum would have nobody to blame when things go wrong.


There's always O'shea....;)

[Dark Savante]

Hell how our standards have dropped. The idea that we should even consider accomodating an average player like Fletcher is ludicrous. The guy is riddled with flaws:

1) his passing is inconsistent
2) there's no strength to his tackling
3) he's easily knocked off the ball
4) he has no pace
5) he has no acceleration
6) he changes direction like a tractor
7) he can't shoot

He puts in lots of effort and he reads the game well but then his physique lets him down. At times it looks as though he has no control over those legs which fly off in different directions reminiscent of the newly born Bambi.

Accomodate him? Dear me, guys!

lol, like a sledgehammer to a grape...

[Invincible]

Hell how our standards have dropped. The idea that we should even consider accomodating an average player like Fletcher is ludicrous. The guy is riddled with flaws:

1) his passing is inconsistent
2) there's no strength to his tackling
3) he's easily knocked off the ball
4) he has no pace
5) he has no acceleration
6) he changes direction like a tractor
7) he can't shoot

He puts in lots of effort and he reads the game well but then his physique lets him down. At times it looks as though he has no control over those legs which fly off in different directions reminiscent of the newly born Bambi.

Accomodate him? Dear me, guys!
Amen brother AAAAAAMEN!!!! *applauds*

[MtP07]

Hell how our standards have dropped. The idea that we should even consider accomodating an average player like Fletcher is ludicrous. The guy is riddled with flaws:

1) his passing is inconsistent
2) there's no strength to his tackling
3) he's easily knocked off the ball
4) he has no pace
5) he has no acceleration
6) he changes direction like a tractor
7) he can't shoot

He puts in lots of effort and he reads the game well but then his physique lets him down. At times it looks as though he has no control over those legs which fly off in different directions reminiscent of the newly born Bambi.

Accomodate him? Dear me, guys!

I agree 100%. How could we ever expect to compete with the top teams, let alone Citeh, with a CM pairing of O'Shea---Fletcher?

At this point Fletcher is nothing more than a good youngster with potential. He may be the man for us in CM in a few years. But we cannot expect to compete for trophies right now with him as our first choice CM.

And I really don't want to hear anything about, "if you can't see his contributions, then you don't know football". CM is the most important position and right now our CM has zero bite to it. We need help there, and fast.

Sorry for the rant style post... :o

[Sofabloke]

We didn't change because of Rooney though. We changed because Keane was out injured and therefore the 4-3-3 wasn't a neccsity but rather something we did to keep shape for when Keano returned. Don't forget Rooney barely missed a game in all the time he's been here and for the majority of that he was tosse aside to the wing in a useless position.

The rumour was that after our bad run the players had words with SAF to the effect that they didn't believe in the 4-3-3 / 4-5-1 systems that were the lovechild of Carlos Queiroz - with Rooney who was clearly disgusted at being asked to play on the wing one of the main complainers.

I guess until we get another round of autobiographies we'll never know the truth ;)

[Sofabloke]

Hell how our standards have dropped. The idea that we should even consider accomodating an average player like Fletcher is ludicrous. The guy is riddled with flaws:

1) his passing is inconsistent
2) there's no strength to his tackling
3) he's easily knocked off the ball
4) he has no pace
5) he has no acceleration
6) he changes direction like a tractor
7) he can't shoot

Accomodate him? Dear me, guys!
Well, I guess when you put it like that :)

I've said before that on the evidence of what I have seen he has all the flaws you describe. If SAF believes in him so much though I guess the guy is worth a place on the bench as he most be showing more ability in training ...

[Teso Dos Bichos]

Put it this way. Fletcher has never been played in his natural position while at Man Utd.