Player classification and Salary Cap math - another Freddy Adu thread

[AndyMead]

I'm looking at various teams, and rosters, trying to figure out what teams need and can afford and I'm having trouble with DC United. Can someone clarify the current Freddy Adu classification?

Is he on DC's "senior roster", yet? He seems to fit the amount of time played requirements.

Does his salary count against the team's salary budget (cap space), yet? And if not, does anyone know why - assuming that he is on the senior roster?

Freddy's status - because he is/would be a max salary player - greatly affects the wiggle room that DC has in bringing in other players.

Thanks for the clarifications!

[ursula]

I don't think anything's been reported other than a "portion" of Fred's salary will be counted against the cap. And I'm not sure if that vague pronouncement is official. Yeah if he's all of a sudden he's a max salary guy then United has money concerns- they'd almost have to let Dema go. But I really think we are clueless here. Goff didn't mention anything about Fred and the cap when he reported that Olsen and Gros got new contracts a week or two ago.

[AndyMead]

I don't think anything's been reported other than a "portion" of Fred's salary will be counted against the cap. And I'm not sure if that vague pronouncement is official. Yeah if he's all of a sudden he's a max salary guy then United has money concerns- they'd almost have to let Dema go. But I really think we are clueless here. Goff didn't mention anything about Fred and the cap when he reported that Olsen and Gros got new contracts a week or two ago.

Thanks.

Given his minutes, he basically has to be on the senior roster, and if he's on the senior roster, then his salary has to count. That makes sense.

I can also see DC making the case that most of his salary is due to "league promotion" and not "earned on the field."

[jason1551]

Nothing official yet on whether Adu is senior roster or not.

Diceson had mentioned that Adu "might" count against the cap in some of his Q&A sessions, but if Adu did count, it would not be the full salary. That makes sense considering Adu isn't even a consistent starter in either of his first two seasons and likely won't be this season.

On top of that, his age plays a huge role in whether he would count or not. At 16, he would be the youngest player ever in MLS to be on a senior roster and that just seems unfair to both him and the team.

[AndyMead]

At 16, he would be the youngest player ever in MLS to be on a senior roster and that just seems unfair to both him and the team.

If he plays the minutes, then he should be on the roster.

I think a good case can be made that he shouldn't count "max" against the salary cap, but his age shouldn't factor into whether or not he's on the senior roster. That should be based on his usage.

[gocaps]

Andy, you've been around MLS long enough to know that the "rules" don't mean anything. No, it's not the bad old days of the "Clint Mathis Metrostars Dispersal Draft" ("Oh, wow, I don't believe it - the Metrostars get the first pick!"), but it's still MLS.

[jason1551]

Thanks.

Given his minutes, he basically has to be on the senior roster, and if he's on the senior roster, then his salary has to count. That makes sense.

I can also see DC making the case that most of his salary is due to "league promotion" and not "earned on the field."
I'd argue that point.

Look at D.J. Countess as an example of how the league works in mysterious ways. He was P-40 for a few years, but was starting at least half (if not more) of those seasons. There's also EJ for that matter. Both got serious minutes in their first few seasons but were only recently graduated. The real mystery is what the hell defines "graduating" from P-40/Generation Adidas because there is no concrete formula for who stays on it and who moves off it. Adu is going to be the biggest headache the league has faced in terms of deciding what to do, as he gets serious minutes, but isn't a proven starter yet. His criteria is so involved that I doubt they make a decision on him this season and just wait it out until next year when they'll have definitive proof of what he's capable of.

[Zman Gunner]

I would assume that Adu gets placed on the senior roster (due to games/minutes played in 2004 and 2005) and his salary has the same maximum salary cap treatment as is done with other big $ players (in 2005, the max cap hit was $285K. Yesterday, Soccer America reported that the hit is now $330K [on an overall cap of $1.91M] in part due to the high $ contracts that players are starting to get (i.e. Johnson, Donovan, Palencia, etc.).

[jason1551]

But in that whole section there was no mention of Adu, which leads me to believe that most teams in MLS don't view him as in the same category as a Donovan or EJ-calibre player. You would think there would be some objections to Adu's case than all the rest (a $500k player that doesn't count against the cap is a bit hard to swallow).

[fatbastard]

(a $500k player that doesn't count against the cap is a bit hard to swallow).
No difference between that (especially considering the age!) and LD and EJ who make $750K+ and only count $300K against it, if anything those two are way worse offenders than Freddy, they're proven. Freddy is a work-in-progress. A risky one with little long-term reward (except for a share of a hopeful transfer fee). No way should more than a typical rookie salary count against the cap for Fred this year.

[jason1551]

No difference between that (especially considering the age!) and LD and EJ who make $750K+ and only count $300K against it, if anything those two are way worse offenders than Freddy, they're proven.

Comparing a 21-22 year old to a 16 year old is a bit of a stretch. Both of those players are on the USMNT and likely going to the WC, while Adu has yet to even play a match for the senior team. They deserve the salary they make, while Freddy has yet to show he's worth even half his salary. That's why find it laughable that Adu should be counted significantly against the senior cap. He just isn't (yet) at the level that makes him a certifiable senior roster player.


Freddy is a work-in-progress. A risky one with little long-term reward (except for a share of a hopeful transfer fee). No way should more than a typical rookie salary count against the cap for Fred this year.

What's a typical rookie salary though? $30K? $20K? Why have him on there at all if that's all that will count? The problem is that no one has any idea what to do with Adu because there's never been a player like him before. He shows flashes of brilliance that make him look like a sure-fire starter, but follows those performances up with stinkers. How can you judge his performance (which is what the GA committee should be looking at) when he's so up and down from match to match? Better to let it go for now and wait until he proves it on the field consistently.

[AndyMead]

while Freddy has yet to show he's worth even half his salary.

By what metric? Have you walked around RFK on game day? There is more Adu merchandise than all the other players put together. Freddy has more than proven his earning power.

[fatbastard]

Comparing a 21-22 year old to a 16 year old is a bit of a stretch. Not sure if you are trying to argue with me .... but that's exactly what I was saying.

[griffin1108]

By what metric? Have you walked around RFK on game day? There is more Adu merchandise than all the other players put together. Freddy has more than proven his earning power.

Earning power for the league maybe, but his on-field value is substantially less. While LD does try to be the "face" of MLS, he really gets paid for what he does on the field, same for EJ. Adu is a combination of player/Ronald MacDonald pitchman.

[jason1551]

By what metric? Have you walked around RFK on game day? There is more Adu merchandise than all the other players put together. Freddy has more than proven his earning power.
I'm talking about on the field, not in the stands. Just because the League decided to make him the posterboy for DC and MLS does not mean that his salary lives up to his play. He could be on every shirt in every stadium but that still wouldn't justify his pay as a player. He earns his salary as a marketing tool, not for his performances.

[jason1551]

Not sure if you are trying to argue with me .... but that's exactly what I was saying.
But that is a bit of a stretch. At 22, Donovan is a proven professional with multiple titles, (brief) international experience, and a guaranteed starter for the USMNT. EJ at 21 (I believe) is a proven professional and, when healthy, part of the USMNT' WC team. Adu at 16 is none of those things. He is not a consistent player, not a part of the USMNT, and has yet to prove that he is a professional. He is still developing and has a long ways to go before he reaches the level of the two aforementioned players.

[pokemoncards]

and has yet to prove that he is a professional.

huh?

[jason1551]

huh?
Acting out in the press is a sign of immaturity not professionalism.

[fatbastard]

But that is a bit of a stretch. At 22, Donovan is a proven professional with multiple titles, (brief) international experience, and a guaranteed starter for the USMNT. EJ at 21 (I believe) is a proven professional and, when healthy, part of the USMNT' WC team. Adu at 16 is none of those things. Right, so it is even worse that those two producing professionals should have over $400,000 of their salary free while people whine about some kid with potential having the same basic amount for free.

Right now, Freddy's no different than any other 3rd year U17 rookie, he shouldn't count too much on the cap - that is the purpose of GenAdidas/P-40 to offer that incentive for teams to be willing to take the extreme risk with younger players :) If you say, by punishing his GenA eligibility for the extra minutes he plays, to a team - "You only have 2-3 years to develop him", then teams will only take the 2-year college kids, you lose the 16-19-year-old incentive, except for maybe phenoms like Fred. Those older players should get less time on GenA, for the same reason younger players should get more time.

However, as Andy rightfully points out, he does play significant minutes, and that must also be considered. I just don't think as much as his youth. One day, when Andy (possibly under hypnosis therapy ;)) admits to himself he's a United fan, he may better understand my way of thinking :D

[DCU]

Has MLS ever had anyone younger than 18 count toward a team's senior roster? Just asking. Perhaps the league will decree that no one under 18 counts as senior roster. It'd make me happy and promote youth development.