WC order of games works well for us.

[Bruce S]

Excuse me if someone has pointed this out, but even though we got a tough group, we got them in exactly the right order.We first play a Czech team whose players have never been in the WC- much like we did Portugal in 2002.Portugal had talent, but they sure sucked in the first 45 minutes against us in 2002. The best time to play the Czechs is right away, right out of the box.
We have Ghana last- a team we should realistically beat, but we will have them with a good idea of if we need to beat them and by how much.They could be much tougher than expected, but if we wanted a team where the result will decide if we go through, and as first or second, we would much rather have Ghana than either other team in our group.
I would still have rather had a soft group, but at least we got them ordered properly.

[adi21]

Excuse me if someone has pointed this out, but even though we got a tough group, we got them in exactly the right order.We first play a Czech team whose players have never been in the WC- much like we did Portugal in 2002.Portugal had talent, but they sure sucked in the first 45 minutes against us in 2002. The best time to play the Czechs is right away, right out of the box.
We have Ghana last- a team we should realistically beat, but we will have them with a good idea of if we need to beat them and by how much.They could be much tougher than expected, but if we wanted a team where the result will decide if we go through, and as first or second, we would much rather have Ghana than either other team in our group.
I would still have rather had a soft group, but at least we got them ordered properly.
I think Italy first then the Chechs would have been better

[blech]

I think Italy first then the Chechs would have been better

i agree. it's better to play italy earlier. first game would have been best, but second is probably better than third (unless they only need a tie in the third, in which case that might be what they shoot for).

but, order certainly could have been worse.

[CbR]

think about it,,Essien gets 2 yellows (realistic b/c he's a thug) and he's done for the US game.

Maybe he can injure Totti,,,we kill two birds with one stone:cool:

[sidefootsitter]

Actually, it's a bad reasoning and a crappy order.

I may be more pessimistic here than most but it's possible that, by the third game, the US will have nothing to play for.

I also think that "Czechia = Portugal = Opening game jitters" is not a sound analogy. Portugal opened and closed with jitters in 2,002. The Czechs, to the contrary, have been playing on an even keel throughout their big tournaments.

They may struggle for a variety of reasons but relying on a quality opponent to fall flat on its face just because is not a useful behavior.

[AGF Aarhus]

I think it's the worst possible order.

The main problem the Czechs have is that they are old. We would want to play them last when they are worn out, not first when they are fresh.

Italy and the Czechs could also very easily find themselves in a position where all they need is not to lose to advance in the final game (both beat Ghana, one beats us and the other draws us), meaning that they kick the ball back and forth for 90 minutes in their last game, and even if we beat Ghana 10-0 it makes not the slightest bit of difference.

Worst possible order.

[afgrijselijkheid]

Excuse me if someone has pointed this out, but even though we got a tough group, we got them in exactly the right order.


i can't agree more, we can actually navigate the group because of the order

it would suck having to play italy first or last, i sure as hell wouldn't want to be ghana's WC debut opponent and the opener is the ideal time to face the czechs

[appoo]

i can't agree more, we can actually navigate the group because of the order

it would suck having to play italy first or last, i sure as hell wouldn't want to be ghana's WC debut opponent and the opener is the ideal time to face the czechs


in a way, Czech vs USA is gonna be one of the more intriguing first round match ups becuase no one seems to have an idea of what's going to happen.


You have the USA with youhtful experience, and Czech with their seasoned European experience.

Both sides are gonna play an open style of play and both sides of a bunch of creative attackers. Both keepers are capable of greatness. It's gonna be a helluva a match

[Autogolazo]

For every point on this topic, there's a counterpoint.

1. Playing the Czech Republic first is bad because the old stars that drive their team (Nedved, Poborsky, Koller, Smicer) will be fresh. Playing them 3rd would've been better.

Counterpoint: Playing the Czech Republic 3rd we would likely be head-to-head for a second round spot. Chances are they might be more careful and take a tie in the first match, whereas they might need a win in the last one. Does Bruckner really send everyone forward in the last 10 minutes of the opening match if it's tied? I don't think so.

2. Playing Ghana last is better because, with their reckless tackling style, they're bound to have some key players out with card accumulation. Besides, they'll probably be playing for nothing at that point.

Counterpoint: Playing a young Ghana team last will show the age of OUR key stars like Reyna, McBride, etc. And we all know what happened when we faced an already-eliminated, relaxed Poland side in WC 2002. A team with no pressure becomes a more dangerous team at the WC.

And on and on...

[adi21]

For every point on this topic, there's a counterpoint.

1. Playing the Czech Republic first is bad because the old stars that drive their team (Nedved, Poborsky, Koller, Smicer) will be fresh. Playing them 3rd would've been better.

Counterpoint: Playing the Czech Republic 3rd we would likely be head-to-head for a second round spot. Chances are they might be more careful and take a tie in the first match, whereas they might need a win in the last one. Does Bruckner really send everyone forward in the last 10 minutes of the opening match if it's tied? I don't think so.

2. Playing Ghana last is better because, with their reckless tackling style, they're bound to have some key players out with card accumulation. Besides, they'll probably be playing for nothing at that point.

Counterpoint: Playing a young Ghana team last will show the age of OUR key stars like Reyna, McBride, etc. And we all know what happened when we faced an already-eliminated, relaxed Poland side in WC 2002. A team with no pressure becomes a more dangerous team at the WC.

And on and on...
rep given,nothing is black or white & you gave well reasoned opinions describing the pros & cons .
what are your feelings re Italy,whay would have been the best time to play them ?

[AGF Aarhus]

i can't agree more, we can actually navigate the group because of the order

it would suck having to play italy first or last, i sure as hell wouldn't want to be ghana's WC debut opponent and the opener is the ideal time to face the czechs

Could you explain your rationale, please?

Why would it suck more to play Italy first or last?

Why would you rather play arguably the weakest team last and the two strongest teams first, when that means there is an increased chance that both you and Ghana are elimated by a draw between Italy and Czech?

Why would you rather play Czech's aging midfield stars first when they are fresh rather than last when they will have endured games against two of the most bruising teams in the WC?

I don't understand this.

[Shackleton]

I think it's the worst possible order.

The main problem the Czechs have is that they are old. We would want to play them last when they are worn out, not first when they are fresh.

Italy and the Czechs could also very easily find themselves in a position where all they need is not to lose to advance in the final game (both beat Ghana, one beats us and the other draws us), meaning that they kick the ball back and forth for 90 minutes in their last game, and even if we beat Ghana 10-0 it makes not the slightest bit of difference.

Worst possible order.

Completely agree. I'd prefer Ghana, Czech, Italy.

Ghana first. If anyone will be nervous, which I doubt, it will be Ghana. Also, they're our easiest opponent and it's best to gain confidence with a win or tie. The Essien-will-be-out-with-two-yellows theory is wishful thinking. It seems to be the latest BS myth without any support in the evidence.

Italy third. They're the best team in the group. Best to get them last, when they may have already qualified and will be resting starters.

Ergo, Czech second. Playing the Czechs third and Italy second would not have been too bad either.

[Autogolazo]

If I had to pick, it'd be Ghana-Italy-Czech Republic, for three reasons.

1. Bruce Arena is excellent at tactically preparing the US for a single game/single opponent. I think he would have the best chance at getting the full 3 pts. from Ghana if they were first, primarily because I think Ghana's weaknesses could be more easily broken down.

2. The importance of getting some kind of result--even a tie--from the first game is huge. It also means that Italy-Czech Rep would be the first game, too. We would be at worst tied for second place after the opening game and possibly in first or tied for first.

3. The Czechs rely heavily on Nedved when he's on the field, both in terms of leadership and ability. I would like to see him in the 3rd match rather than the first. These are going to be bruising matches and I think he'll be much worse off by then, given his age and fragility.

Italy doesn't really matter one way or the other. Even if they have 6 pts and we played them last, they'd be playing for at least one more point to avoid Brazil. So because of my thoughts on the Czechs and Ghana, I'd put them 2nd.

[Bruce S]

Italy and the Czechs could also very easily find themselves in a position where all they need is not to lose to advance in the final game (both beat Ghana, one beats us and the other draws us), meaning that they kick the ball back and forth for 90 minutes in their last game, and even if we beat Ghana 10-0 it makes not the slightest bit of difference.

Worst possible order.
we are immunized against that.The second place team gets Brazil.

[ghazi]

[QUOTE=AGF Aarhus]I think it's the worst possible order.

Italy and the Czechs could also very easily find themselves in a position where all they need is not to lose to advance in the final game (both beat Ghana, one beats us and the other draws us), meaning that they kick the ball back and forth for 90 minutes in their last game, and even if we beat Ghana 10-0 it makes not the slightest bit of difference.

[QUOTE]

Correct me if i am wrong but a tie in the final Italy-CR game does not necessarily mean the US doesnt go thru. Assuming Italy and Czech both beat Ghana, draw eachother and one draws us and one beats us, the points would be as follows, (lets assume Italy is the Euro team that beats us):

ITaly - W,W,D = 7 points
Czech - D,W,D = 5 points
USA - D,D,W = 5 points

So taking that example, the determining factor would be goal differentials b/w us and the Czechs.

I need to check the timings of the last round of games to see who plays first, because that will determine who needs to play with what, if any, sense of urgency on the last day to advance.

[dncm]

I need to check the timings of the last round of games to see who plays first, because that will determine who needs to play with what, if any, sense of urgency on the last day to advance.

Completely from memory, but I thought the last 2 games (and maybe all the games) in a group were at the same time.

[Shackleton]

Correct me if i am wrong but a tie in the final Italy-CR game does not necessarily mean the US doesnt go thru. Assuming Italy and Czech both beat Ghana, draw eachother and one draws us and one beats us, the points would be as follows, (lets assume Italy is the Euro team that beats us):

ITaly - W,W,D = 7 points
Czech - D,W,D = 5 points
USA - D,D,W = 5 points

Your example is off. If one beats us (Italy in your example), then the USA would be -- L, D, W = 4 points, and third place.

[swedust]

I am not in the camp that would have wanted Ghana first. The first game is our best chance to (hopefully) prove that we are still underestimated, and I want that advantage over one of the Euros.

And it is good for us if Ghana takes points from a Euro, and if they do I don't want to face that Euro in the last game where going through is on the line.

If I could choose I would have flip-flopped Italy and Czechia but I'm good with the games as the order they're in.

[Shackleton]

Italy doesn't really matter one way or the other. Even if they have 6 pts and we played them last, they'd be playing for at least one more point to avoid Brazil. So because of my thoughts on the Czechs and Ghana, I'd put them 2nd.

I hadn't considered that. You've persuaded me--Ghana, Italy, Czech would have been ideal.

[Sachin]

I would prefer Italy first. If I remember my world cup history correctly, Italy gets better as the tournament rolls along. Plus we have the added advantage of getting the hardest game out of the way.

Sachin