England-Argentina 1966

[ac1962]

Greetings to you all, does anybody have any links to anything related to this game? A sportscaster in Mexico City talked about Argentina being robbed in that particular game, any info????:confused:

[in da soup]

a respected italian football journalist, gabrielle marcotti, who broadcasts a lot on english radio and also writes a column for 'the times', is always mentioning the fact the argentines were cheated in that game.

[FWS93]

from what i remember of reading a story about it, the Argentine captain was sent off for no appearant reason, and he refused to leave the field because he didnt understand what the ref was telling him because the ref was english and didnt speak spanish, thats all i know about it.
also they came up with the red & yellow cards because of this Incident
can anybody add to this because im sure there was more to the story

[argentine soccer fan]

Here is a transcript of a fragment of an article writen by El Grafico's journalist Juvenal at the time: (taken from Andres Cantor's book 'Goooal')


World Cup 1966 is over for us. Until Saturday at 1:38 PM, Greenwich time, it was a realistic dream. From that moment on, it was out of our hands because we were left a man short against a team that had to beat us. When England scored their goal only thirteen minutes from the final whistle, they sealed a memory that could have been better but is not in any way disagreable or bitter.
......
We had serious warnings about the officiating. Information supplied by Spanish and South American friends warned us about German referee Kreitlein. And those warnings were confirmed as soon as the game started.
.......
With that we entered the last ten minutes of the first half. A foul was called on Perfumo for tackling an English forward from behind. Rattin got between the referee and Perfumo's attempted protest.
.......
Rattin's gestures were neither angry nor offensive. We saw his gestures: His index finger leaning downwards on the palm of his other hand as if he were calling "time out" in basketball and indicating the sign of captain with his fingers.
......
Roma kicked the goal kick to Marzolini, and Rattin kept on talking to Herr Kreitlein in Morse Code. From a distance, it appeared he was trying to say, "Please give me a moment, I am the captain." All of a sudden the German's index finger signaled "out". The expulsion had no justification.
.......
Neither physical violence, nor aggression, nor disrespect for the referee were ever aparent. Leaving a team one man short in a World Cup quater-final match, without a good reason, appeared to be an enormous error.



What happened afterwards was that Rattin refused to leave, he took the corner flag and sat on a red carpet which was there for the Queen of England. And to make matters worse, the English coach after the match insulted the Argentine players by calling them "Animals", and forbade his players from engaging in the sportsmanship custom of swapping shirts.

The statement that says it all is.. 'against a team that had to beat us.'

Obviously it was not the first nor the last time that the home team seemingly got some controversial help at a World Cup, so we shouldn't whine about an unfortunate aspect of the game that is par for the course.

What is unfortunate is that the controversy overshadows the fact that Argentina had one hell of a team in 1966. They beat Switzerland and Spain, and tied finalist W.Germany in the group stage. They only finished second to the Germans by goal differencial, and so had to play the home team England. Otherwise perhaps they would have been robbed in the final instead or the quarterfinal.

(The Germans claim that they were robbed in the final, based on the famous goal that allegedly never cross the goalline.)

[COBRA007]

argentina were a dirty side that kicked the english throughout the match. they also failed to put the ball in back of the net so they were not robbed and rightfully branded animals

[shaf-argentina]

So you are only robbed if a goal is disallowed, not if you are forced to play with 10 men without your captain for most of the match in a match as important as a QF of the world cup? Clever, I say.

[COBRA007]

So you are only robbed if a goal is disallowed, not if you are forced to play with 10 men without your captain for most of the match in a match as important as a QF of the world cup? Clever, I say.

so you all agree that england were robbed against argentina in 1998

[hoss23]

so you all agree that england were robbed against argentina in 1998


Because spice boy thought he was Bruce Lee?

[in da soup]

you see cobra, we're talking about a specific game in 66, let's not bring up every other incident that's happened between the two countries, they've already been well documented. if you don't like this thread you can always ignore it, rather than bringing spite to the table. or are you so full of anger towards your own life that you have to take it out on others? show a bit of class boy.

[COBRA007]

you see cobra, we're talking about a specific game in 66, let's not bring up every other incident that's happened between the two countries, they've already been well documented. if you don't like this thread you can always ignore it, rather than bringing spite to the table. or are you so full of anger towards your own life that you have to take it out on others? show a bit of class boy.

people think argentina were robbed because they had a man sent off but they were not even winning at the time so they were not robbed.

[hoss23]

people think argentina were robbed because they had a man sent off but they were not even winning at the time so they were not robbed.

I'll bite again...according to this logic, since Arg-Eng were tied at zero (i.e. England were not winning) at the moment that the greatest athlete of all time punched the ball, which ultimately found its way to the back of the net, England were not robbed in Mexico.

[COBRA007]

I'll bite again...according to this logic, since Arg-Eng were tied at zero (i.e. England were not winning) at the moment that the greatest athlete of all time punched the ball, which ultimately found its way to the back of the net, England were not robbed in Mexico.

England was not "robbed" as they had plenty of time to score and the winning goal was legitimate. theres a diference betwen scoring a goal and a player being sent of when your losing.

rattan was rightfully sent off no one can prove otherwise he made a shocking challange that resulted in the card

[in da soup]

rattin wasn't sent off for a challenge, let alone a shocking one.

you are wrong...

but that's been evident for some while.

[vipnerd]

England was not "robbed" as they had plenty of time to score and the winning goal was legitimate. theres a diference betwen scoring a goal and a player being sent of when your losing.

rattan was rightfully sent off no one can prove otherwise he made a shocking challange that resulted in the card

This is precisely what makes this sport so beautiful compared to most other sports ... you think you are right, props to you.

The other side also thinks they are right ... read ASF's post. ;)



.

[COBRA007]

This is precisely what makes this sport so beautiful compared to most other sports ... you think you are right, props to you.

The other side also thinks they are right ... read ASF's post. ;)



.

no one can say argentina were robbed because no one knows what ratin said

[FWS93]

well rattin did not speak english and the ref did not speak Spanish, thats a fact so how could he offend the ref?

[El viejo Matias]

Umm Cobra in 1998 was Beckham captain of the English national team? Robbed or not robbed fact is I did see a large portion of that mtch on tape and I to this day can't see why the man was sent off. Period!! Secondly both teams were fairly rough but I would say the English in fact used more roughness than the South americans who for the most part kept the ball on the ground and played with more technical ability wich frustrated the English lads. Calling Argentines animals to this day I find an inexcusable act and one of extreme lack of profesionalism and taste..... lastly but not least... to the moon with the bloody Queen;)

[argentine soccer fan]

There is no doubt that England was getting the benefit of the doubt in 66, but they were an excellent team as well.

Argentina also had a great team, very complete, and if they would have finished ahead of Germany (which they didn't by goal differential) then I can see them possibly reaching the final.

But having seen a tape of the match, it wasn't Argentina's best effort. I think they went into it with the idea that they needed to fight, because England would be favored, and they were playing too defensively considering the players they had. Having said that, before Rattin was sent off England was not getting any chances and it looked like a stalemate.

Trying to be impartial, I would say that there is no way anybody can know what Rattin said to the ref. Rattin swears to this day that he didn't say anything offensive. He restrained Perfumo from complaining, and as the captain, went to talk to the ref himself. In the tape (which wasn't top quality) I could see him talking, not really animated, nothing out of the ordinary, the kind of exchange between player and ref that was common and accepted in Argentina. Maybe in Europe they had different standards, who knows?

Things were not as uniform globally as they are now, and maybe what we see as conspiracy was merely a misunderstanding. Maybe Rattin was a victim of a cultural difference in the ways players and refs related to each other in the different continents.

At any rate, even with 10 men for most of the match, Argentina gave the eventual champions all they could handle. The goal by Hurst near the end was one of very few chances they got. I really think that because of the ugly incident in the showcase match against the home team, (and the ugly performance in that match in general), many football fans underestimate Argentina in 66, how good the team was and how talented its players were.

Also, it seems like the ugly and insensitive epithet used by the English coach after the match seemed to work against us in a funny way. Somehow even today some people use that slur as though it was a justifiable label for our team. The poster called Cobra did it just now, and it really is unfair and wrong to use it in a serious discussion, just as it was wrong for Ramsey to use it after the match.

This is an Argentine team that had easily beaten Spain and Switzerland in the first round, playing well, and they also got a draw against eventual finalist W.Germany. I think in the other bracket they would have gotten past Portugal and into the final. Portugal had the great Eusebio, but their defense and goalie were not strong, as N.Korea exposed them.

At any rate, England was a worthy champion, and if they got some help, it is not the first or last home team to get benefits. As fans we should be used to it by now. I am not about to whine about it, but I am saying all this because I think we should appreciate the team we had back then.

[shaf-argentina]

Yes, all the credit to England that they have won it, favour or not, and yeh most home teams do get a bit of favour here and there (Korea any1?)

But it was highly unprofessional for a so called "sir" to have made a comment like that. Its typical of "most" england fansto refer to certain incidents and make generaisations. I have lived in England for the last 4 years and everytime Argentina are brought up, they either mention that term "animal" or "cheater" referring to Diego. I mean, just get on with it. Beckham did kick out at Simeone in 98, but I am sure most Argentine fans will appreciate it was a one off and he is an arrite bloke at the end of the day.

I remember Shearer kicking an opponent in the head while he was lying down in a prem game for newcastle, or was it blackburn. But do you see me generalising all englishmen as animals?

[Leon12]

When England players cheat (i.e. when Michael Owen dives to get a penalty in every major tournament he has ever played in) then the press and media in general never mention it, or if they do they just laugh it off. Yet they keep banging on about Diego and his hand of goad goal and 1966, they should move on and get over it.