Spirituality...Religion

[#10 Jersey]

Ok, it's been asked in the middle of another thread. What do you think is the difference between spirituality and Religion?

[Bob Morocco]

Property

[tino11]

Ok, it's been asked in the middle of another thread. What do you think is the difference between spirituality and Religion?

One makes personal sense and the other is a bag of shite.

[spejic]

Spirituality is what one person thinks. A religion is what one person thinks that other people should think.

[argentine soccer fan]

Spirituality is a lot of different things to different people, but I think there are two major ways people look at their spiritual journey. One is searching outside yourself (which can mean possibly through an established religion, but not necesarily). The other is to look within.

I am certainly no spiritual guru, and I don't believe in most of what passes for spirituality, but I do find my spirituality beggining within myself, rather than in any outside forces. I believe in myself, as a being beyond my physical body and my perceptions. That is why, unlike some people here, I find science to be fascinating and practical, but also limited, because it is based only on what we can perceive and we can measure.

The moment I believe in a being (the real me) who uses my body as a puppet, who judges and makes inteligent decisions beyond what my physical body and brain process, then that is where spirituality starts for me. Because I see my real self as something beyond time and space, beyond our physical universe which can be measure by scientific experiment.

The fact that I believe in a being as myself being real beyond the physical, and by extension I believe that all other physical beings I interact with must also be real in this sense, it makes it plausible to me that there are other beings beyond the physical. Possibly beings greater and more intelligent than ourselves. Possibly even God.

I haven't seen any evidence of the latter, beyond the philosophical arguments and other people's asssertions. But I do think that my spiritual journey has taken me at least to the point where I have a strong belief in my own existence in a spiritual sense.

I would say that while I acknowledge that many seem able to find spirituality in religion, I had to break free of my religious traditions to trully begin my spiritual journey.

[DJPoopypants]

religion is codified, structured spirituality. Spirituality with laws, so to speak.

[#10 Jersey]

Property

I believe what you are doing is the definition of trolling. Will you kindly go away?

[#10 Jersey]

These are some very interesting responses. I think on one hand spirituality is a catch phrase that indicates that someone has a belief or faith, but does not want to define it exactly as they perceive their religion defines it.

I get worried when spirituality becomes only inward based; that is, my feelings, belief and actions are only directed to what it can do for me. To me, that is what Madonna's version of Kabbalah is. It's not much more than self-help.

[bungadiri]

Religion is social. Spirituality is individual.

[bungadiri]

I believe what you are doing is the definition of trolling. Will you kindly go away?
Actually, he makes an interesting point. You may find it controversial or irritating, but it adds a useful element to the discussion.

[DJPoopypants]

Property

wandering buddhist monks with only a walking stick and a bowl for rice are not religious?

[#10 Jersey]

Actually, he makes an interesting point. You may find it controversial or irritating, but it adds a useful element to the discussion.

I don't care about controverisal or irritating, that's ok. If I misread his post, I apologize.

[christopher d]

Actually, he makes an interesting point. You may find it controversial or irritating, but it adds a useful element to the discussion.
He makes a fascinating point, but this wandering buddhist monks with only a walking stick and a bowl for rice are not religious? is spot on. I don't know much about Mrs. Richie's personal concept of Kabbalah is, but I do have to take issue with the idea that spirituality in the abstract can't be merely navel-gazing. To me, spirituality has always been either the knowledge or the belief that something greater than humanity exists outside the realm of the mundane.

Now, codifying that belief, setting down some rules for acting on that belief -- whether they be as numerous as the 613 Mitzvos or as simple as the Wiccan Rede ("If you harm none, do as you will"; called "Wiccan", but fairly ubiquitous throughout neo-Paganism) -- turns it into a religion, imo.

Perhaps an equally interesting question is whether anthropomorphizing that "something greater" (as most folks do) through naming it, addressing it (even without name), assigning sex or number to it or any other method is a. a prerequisite to "spirituality", being a closer connection with what has turned into a deity, or b. the makings of a personal religion, or c. none of the above, just something that happens to even the most vaguely theistic concepts of Divinity.

[#10 Jersey]

He makes a fascinating point, but this is spot on. I don't know much about Mrs. Richie's personal concept of Kabbalah is, but I do have to take issue with the idea that spirituality in the abstract can't be merely navel-gazing. To me, spirituality has always been either the knowledge or the belief that something greater than humanity exists outside the realm of the mundane.

Now, codifying that belief, setting down some rules for acting on that belief -- whether they be as numerous as the 613 Mitzvos or as simple as the Wiccan Rede ("If you harm none, do as you will"; called "Wiccan", but fairly ubiquitous throughout neo-Paganism) -- turns it into a religion, imo.

Perhaps an equally interesting question is whether anthropomorphizing that "something greater" (as most folks do) through naming it, addressing it (even without name), assigning sex or number to it or any other method is a. a prerequisite to "spirituality", being a closer connection with what has turned into a deity, or b. the makings of a personal religion, or c. none of the above, just something that happens to even the most vaguely theistic concepts of Divinity.

You could also say..at the point you put a name on the "something greater" you have gone farther away from spirituality.

[christopher d]

You could also say..at the point you put a name on the "something greater" you have gone farther away from spirituality.
Please explain...

[dj43]

CS Lewis had a description of Christianity that fits the title question reasonably well, IMO.

Lewis offered that "christians," in their many variations and denominations, are, at their core, far more alike than different. So he likened Christianity to a long, wide hallway with numerous doors into rooms along that hallway. In each room there were slightly differing views of some of the details but in the whole, it was in the rooms that there were chairs and food and friendship. The seeker was free to wander up and down that hallway, but would never really find much of substance until they entered a room and accepted what that room had to offer.

I believe "spirituality" fits the description of that long hallway. There are no hard-and-fast rules about exactly what one should believe, but neither are there any specific guidelines and direction as one would find once they embrace a room.

Hence, one can be a "spiritual" creature and perhaps even feel very good about themselves if even in a rather sanctimonious way, but that person will continue to be only inwardly motivated until they embrace a source that motivates them to a higher level of personal, and spiritual, growth. The Pantheist would believe it is enough to remain this inwardly motivated person as that is the expression of god in humans. But if our model is only other humans, then have we not set our goal too low?

Mitch Albom asked a very interesting question of Barbara Walters in her interview with him on 60 Minutes a month ago, IIRC. When she asked him why it was important to believe in heaven, Albom said, "If a belief in a higher reward than just dying and being buried will result in the believer living a somewhat better life than if they only believed in the here-and-now, then isn't believing in a heaven not worthy in itself?"

To me, this train of thought fits the question of the title. Once a person begins to look at their own spirituality in light of how that directs their outward behavior, they will see that they must seek some higher level of awareness than just what their own life has created to that point. Looking at other humans, while useful as a comparison to one's self, is a selfish, self-centered way of justifying that inwardly-motivated ego.

Summarily, spirituality is the first step in finding greater meaning to one's life and greater service to fellows, but like the hallway, it is only a path to greater expectations and goals, it is not the final destination.

[monop_poly]

Religion is a developed set of beliefs about a god or gods and how he/she/it/they relate to the known universe (including people).

Spirituality is a pretense of people who would rather not have their beliefs about-a-god-or-gods-and-how-he/she/it/they-relate-to-the-known-universe-(including-people) characterized as religious.

[christopher d]

Religion is a developed set of beliefs about a god or gods and how he/she/it/they relate to the known universe (including people).

Spirituality is a pretense of people who would rather not have their beliefs about-a-god-or-gods-and-how-he/she/it/they-relate-to-the-known-universe-(including-people) characterized as religious.
Which would mean, by your definition, that there is for each non-Temple (of whatever sort)-bound Theist a religion-for-one? That doesn't make sense to me whatsoever.

[monop_poly]

Which would mean, by your definition, that there is for each non-Temple (of whatever sort)-bound Theist a religion-for-one? That doesn't make sense to me whatsoever.

I guess it's semantics. I don't subscribe to a definition of religion as a social construct. From a Christian perspective (or at least my Christian perspective), all people have a sense of the divine and are religious in the sense that they worship someone or something. "You're gonna have to serve somebody." -- Bob Zimmerman. Neutrality is not possible. The idea of spirituality being a vague in-touch-ness with a spiritual or intangible world is either a delusion or, as I have said, a pretense.

[YankHibee]

I believe what you are doing is the definition of trolling. Will you kindly go away?


He probably could have elaborated, but I do not think that was trolling.