View Full Version : Another Idea To Shoot Down For You English
theworm2345
08 Jan 2006, 03:47 PM
I know you guys didnt like the idea of the allstar game, skills competition (though contrary to what you guys think it is, it is not "how many stepovers someone can do in a minute"), or hall of fame, but what about this idea
Playoffs (I am sure you will hate it)
The playoff would be between the top 8 teams, with the top 4 having home field advantage. No aggregarate, just one match, then you go to the next round, and the winner of the playoff is the champion of England. Has this ever been thought of before, or am I just an ignorant american?
You guys do have the FA and Carling Cups, but those 2 dont seem to be that serious anymore (for example, Chelsea making 9 changes to their normal squad).
Let me guess, you think English Football is fine the way it is. I would say so as well. But that doesnt mean you cant change (because if you havent noticed, people are starting to say it is "boring", not me though)
Here is what the default bracket would be
http://img211.imageshack.us/my.php?image=untitled4sz.png
And if the season ended today
http://img259.imageshack.us/my.php?image=untitled28yq.png
So as you can see, it adds some exitement to the end of the season (because most of the time there isnt a race for the winner, though maybe for Champions League, or UEFA)
Twenty26Six
08 Jan 2006, 03:56 PM
I know you guys didnt like the idea of the allstar game, skills competition (though contrary to what you guys think it is, it is not "how many stepovers someone can do in a minute"), or hall of fame, but what about this idea
Playoffs (I am sure you will hate it)
The playoff would be between the top 8 teams, with the top 4 having home field advantage. No aggregarate, just one match, then you go to the next round, and the winner of the playoff is the champion of England. Has this ever been thought of before, or am I just an ignorant american?
They don't want this and it's not in their culture to want this.
The FA Cup and League Cup are there for the excitement of win-or-go-home matches.
The League Championship is a grueling and evenly-distributed list of fixtures meant to comparatively measure a team's value based against all its peers.
They have the best of both worlds already. No need for the two formats to mix.
theworm2345
08 Jan 2006, 04:06 PM
They don't want this and it's not in their culture to want this.
The FA Cup and League Cup are there for the excitement of win-or-go-home matches.
The League Championship is a grueling and evenly-distributed list of fixtures meant to comparatively measure a team's value based against all its peers.
They have the best of both worlds already. No need for the two formats to mix.
I would agree, except as I stated above, many teams use the English and League Cups for developemental purposes. Otherwise, the playoffs would be pointless. I do think the League Championship is exciting, that is why I thought the highest league could use it.
srd....
08 Jan 2006, 04:15 PM
the lower divisions use play offs to decide promotions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Playoff#Playoffs_in_English_football_.28soccer.29)
Twenty26Six
08 Jan 2006, 04:16 PM
I would agree, except as I stated above, many teams use the English and League Cups for developemental purposes. Otherwise, the playoffs would be pointless. I do think the League Championship is exciting, that is why I thought the highest league could use it.
Actually only a few teams use the Cup for developmental purposes. Even then not to the great extent that it would seem like.
What do you think a "american style - single elimination" playoff system could introduce that isn't already present in the English game?
Twenty26Six
08 Jan 2006, 04:23 PM
Here is what the default bracket would be
http://img211.imageshack.us/my.php?image=untitled4sz.png
And if the season ended today
http://img259.imageshack.us/my.php?image=untitled28yq.png
So as you can see, it adds some exitement to the end of the season (because most of the time there isnt a race for the winner, though maybe for Champions League, or UEFA)
The race for the inner is the 38 game schedule which is much more refined than a few one-off crapshoots where teams will inherently play very conservative.
Even thought I am a LFC fan... If Liverpool were to finish 3rd in the league and more than 10 points back from Chelsea, and still go on to win a playoff format for the league title, it would diminish the stature of the League Championship in my eyes. If any team could win it, even after having a crap 8th place season, then who cares who wins it? It would be nothing special anymore.
The excitement is watching the games for what they are, not the manufactured hype surrounding them to entice less than devoted football fans. If you need extra help to enjoy watching football, maybe you should be watching other sports more.
theworm2345
08 Jan 2006, 04:47 PM
The race for the inner is the 38 game schedule which is much more refined than a few one-off crapshoots where teams will inherently play very conservative.
Even thought I am a LFC fan... If Liverpool were to finish 3rd in the league and more than 10 points back from Chelsea, and still go on to win a playoff format for the league title, it would diminish the stature of the League Championship in my eyes. If any team could win it, even after having a crap 8th place season, then who cares who wins it? It would be nothing special anymore.
The excitement is watching the games for what they are, not the manufactured hype surrounding them to entice less than devoted football fans. If you need extra help to enjoy watching football, maybe you should be watching other sports more.
Yeah, that was one thing I was worried about, though I think the playoff would release the game from Chelsea's seemingly monopoly
the lower divisions use play offs to decide promotions
I may not be smart, but I sure as hell am not that dumb, you dont think I knew that?
RichardL
08 Jan 2006, 05:32 PM
It would provide an exciting end to the season, but unless the team who won the league also won the play-off, nobody would feel justice has been done.
It would also cheapen the league season.
Play-offs are accepted for promotion as it's only for the lowest promotion place. And it's only four teams. When it comes down to it though, very few people remember where the play-off winners finished the following year - just that they won the final.
Besides, we already have the FA Cup for a showpiece final. We don't need another.
Toon³
08 Jan 2006, 06:12 PM
Play-offs are a good thing for neutral fans. But can you imagine what it would be like if you topped the league by 10 points and then a team in 6th place about 20 points behind you beats you in a one off game and claims the title?
The league is all about consistancy and the idea of a play-off system makes this pointless.
EDIT: I just now realise that this has been just said above....must read thread fully.
michaec
09 Jan 2006, 05:44 AM
Yeah, that was one thing I was worried about, though I think the playoff would release the game from Chelsea's seemingly monopolyWhile a lot of people find Chelsea's current domination of the league distasteful, I don't think you'll find much support (in England at least) for this as a way to end it.
tino11
09 Jan 2006, 05:49 AM
No matter how you dress this up, we just don't want it. Change is good if required, but not for the sake of change. We have played this format for over 100 years, why would we change it?
Nobody likes Chelsea's dominance (well except Chelsea fans I suppose), so we are forced to change ourselves to chase them. If we all decded to change the format so they had a greater chance of losing, what would be the point in that?
chrizzah
09 Jan 2006, 09:22 AM
Just think of the Champions League as the playoffs for all of Europe and you'll be happy.
theworm2345
09 Jan 2006, 10:49 PM
Chelsea this and last year, Arsenal 2 years ago, the seasons arent even close.
Prenn
10 Jan 2006, 03:50 AM
Chelsea this and last year, Arsenal 2 years ago, the seasons arent even close.
Manchester United for 10 years before that... keep going.
billyireland
10 Jan 2006, 03:55 AM
Chelsea this and last year, Arsenal 2 years ago, the seasons arent even close.
But they earned it on the pitch. It would simply not be fair for one who has dominated the league to lose a once-off game and thus not be given the title of Champions of England. Look at Chelsea last year, they got the highest points total ever, but by the seasons end they were beginning to run out of steam and accumulate injuries - had they lost to anybody in this playoff structure and thus been forgotten about and not seen as the best team in the country, it would make little-to-no sense.
"The table never lies" is one of the truest and best quotes in sports, imo... and shows why the system is great the way it is and doesn't need any changing, in just four words.
Mac_Howard
10 Jan 2006, 04:02 AM
They have playoffs in the various Aussie leagues and it merely diminishes the league program itself. They even call the league program the "minor championship". What can happen is that the club that bosses the league all season and is clearly the best club overall suffers a few injuries as the playoffs begin and the sixth club wins the "major championship". It can become a travesty :rolleyes:
tino11
10 Jan 2006, 04:07 AM
They have playoffs in the various Aussie leagues and it merely diminshes the league program itself. They even call the league program the "minor championship". What can happen is that the club that bosses the league all season and is clearly the best club overall suffers a few injuries as the playoffs begin and the sixth club wins the "major championship". It can become a travesty :rolleyes:
Indeed, well said.
btw, what's a "quot"?
Mac_Howard
10 Jan 2006, 04:09 AM
It's what the board software sometimes puts in instead of quotation marks. Don't know why :)
Colm
10 Jan 2006, 02:00 PM
Manchester United for 10 years before that... keep going.Liverpool for most of the late 70's and 80's before that
leg_breaker
10 Jan 2006, 04:42 PM
Yeah, that was one thing I was worried about, though I think the playoff would release the game from Chelsea's seemingly monopoly
So even though Chelsea are clearly the best team, the league should be decided on a random playoff, just to make it 'interesting'?
The league should be run as a sporting contest first, and entertainment for armchair fans second. We don't want the NFL in England.
Not to mention it would devalue the FA cup even further.