How Hiddink Would Defend Italy

[Bob Morocco]

This is based mainly off of how PSV came out against Milan on 10/19/05.

Keys:

1. Challenge Pirlo: There were two main ways this was done, man-marking with DMB and pressure upon receiving from whomever's covering the zone he is in. The offensive formation is not vital when man-marking is employed because the defensive challenges will alter its structure.

2. The second key is to stay tight on Italy's AM.

3. Cover both Fullbacks

4. Free CM overload on the ballside


The common box lineup could be used but on defence it would change to this if man-marking is employed:

------------Keller------------
-Dolo--Gooch-Gibbs--Lewis
-----------Mastro------------
-----------Reyna------------
-EJ/LD-----DMB-----EJ/LD-
----------McBride-----------

Landon and DaMarcus can trade off covering a wingback and chasing Pirlo same with Reyna and Pablo on Totti. This defensive alignment forces Italy inside or well wide. It will frustrate and tire Pirlo, who isn't the fittest player. Whichever CM isn't marking Italy's AM will be playing free safety in the general area behind DaMarcus on the ballside. The weak side fullback will be preventing the switch by tracking Italy's wide midfielder on the side opposite the ball. EJ and LD will be staying goalside of Italy's wingbacks from the start of the middle third all the way to our goal. McBride will be preventing Italy's CB's from advancing or having time on the ball in a decent passing position, he can also switch with EJ to have him as a wide outlet for clearances. This defensive stance will take alot of energy and is vulnerable to individual breakdowns caused by blown marking assignments, which is why the second more zonal strategy will also have to be alternatively employed.

Zonal:
------------Keller------------
-------Gooch--Gibbs--------
-Dolo-----------------Lewis-
-------Reyna--Mastro-------
------LD-----------DMB-----
--------EJ---------McB------

Basically with this scheme whenever Pirlo gets the ball in someone's zone he is closed down asap and if possible doubled by a forward. This is a more standard defensive scheme that our team should be very comfortable with.


When and how to use man-marking or the zonal scheme: Guus started out marking Pirlo tight with DMB to wear him out early as DMB's fitness is superb. He also changed the level of pressure to keep Milan guessing and frustrated. It seemed like the breakdown in the first half was 80% man-marking 20% zone and 50% press 50% sit back. In the second half it went to 65% zonal and 35% man-marking with the same amount of pressing.


How it worked: Milan had their chances but most were from the edge of the box and due to Kaka springing free. Gomes was great in goal. Pirlo was neutralized and run ragged. PSV's offence was poor but it was due in large part to bad decision making and the inept play of Robert. Every 50/50 ball in the air was won by Milan which with McBride you could see easily going the other way. PSV's midfield did not pick out dangerous passes and many chances fizzled including a 2 v 1 near the end of the game that could have stolen all 3 points.

Conclusion: Italy will find a way to exploit man-marking eventually but in the process Pirlo will be shut down and his later effectiveness can be reduced. I don't think this will effect the offence negatively as LD and DMB are so fit that they will be able to play their normal games when we have the ball. It is very likely that all the coaches in our group will have seen this game so it will not come as a huge shock but I find it still worthwhile to try.

[Bigrose30]

Wwhd?

[Rahbiefowlah]

It seems Italy attack more through Pirlo to the wings, than direct balls from Pirlo to the front two. Would that be a correct assumption?

[sidefootsitter]

Keys:

1. Challenge Pirlo:. Which is why the first thing I said on the Team Italy thread was that, had I been in Lippi's $600 shoes, I'd get Pirlo some help with the second deep mids capable of going forward.

But, at this point, Pirlo-Gattuso combo seems a far likelier scenario.

[Nimbus2000]

This is based mainly off of how PSV came out against Milan on 10/19/05.


How it worked: Milan had their chances but most were from the edge of the box and due to Kaka springing free. Gomes was great in goal. Pirlo was neutralized and run ragged. PSV's offence was poor but it was due in large part to bad decision making and the inept play of Robert. Every 50/50 ball in the air was won by Milan which with McBride you could see easily going the other way. PSV's midfield did not pick out dangerous passes and many chances fizzled including a 2 v 1 near the end of the game that could have stolen all 3 points.

Conclusion: Italy will find a way to exploit man-marking eventually but in the process Pirlo will be shut down and his later effectiveness can be reduced. I don't think this will effect the offence negatively as LD and DMB are so fit that they will be able to play their normal games when we have the ball. It is very likely that all the coaches in our group will have seen this game so it will not come as a huge shock but I find it still worthwhile to try.


Was of VofH playing that game? If so isn't he pretty good in the air and if he wasn't winnning balls I'm not sure McBride would do that much better.

[Bob Morocco]

Was of VofH playing that game? If so isn't he pretty good in the air and if he wasn't winnning balls I'm not sure McBride would do that much better.

He was out they started Beasley--Robert--Farfan up front.

[Bluecat82]

Very nice analysis, Bob...

However, does anyone else have the Herb Brooks/Kurt Russell line going through their head...

"You don't defend Italy, you attack them!" ;)

[Bob Morocco]

Very nice analysis, Bob...

However, does anyone else have the Herb Brooks/Kurt Russell line going through their head...

"You don't defend Italy, you attack them!" ;)

I initialy wrote "Attack Pirlo" for my first key but felt that it would cause confusion.

[Martin Fischer]

...
------------Keller------------
-Dolo--Gooch-Gibbs--Lewis
-----------Mastro------------
-----------Reyna------------
-EJ/LD-----DMB-----EJ/LD-
----------McBride-----------

.....


Why Bob why?

EJ on a wing? LD on a wing? DMB in the middle? McBride alone up top?

Look if you want to play this way, drop McBride, play EJ up top. Play CMB or Convey on the right (or a real right mid if one establishes himself) and the other on the left and play Landon in a free role. But I don't know if it is worth it just based on the way PSV plays AC Milan.

[FirstStar]

I guess the first question in defending Italy is to judge whether the attack will come from the continent (like Hannible and the later Germanic invasions) or by sea (like the Greeks at Syracuse and the Allies during WWII). History has shown that the terrain favors a strong, single line of defense in the North coming out of the Alps and a more layered, defense-in-depth in the South.

I'm not too sure that Hiddink knows that much about military history, though.

[CbR]

Why Bob why?

EJ on a wing? LD on a wing? DMB in the middle? McBride alone up top?

Look if you want to play this way, drop McBride, play EJ up top. Play CMB or Convey on the right (or a real right mid if one establishes himself) and the other on the left and play Landon in a free role. But I don't know if it is worth it just based on the way PSV plays AC Milan.

im guessing he's saying that Mcbride stays up top most of the game, with his strike partner going back in midfield, dont look too much into it

[auf Amerika]

Isn't the important question though... how would Hiddink SCORE against Italy? And with the NATs not PSV. I say we hope for some nice bounces or Landon or Beasley being taken down in the box. May McBride and head poke one in too.

Italy is going to be awesome and kill us I think. I think they win the World Cup. Them or Spain.

[Asprilla9]

Isn't the important question though... how would Hiddink SCORE against Italy? And with the NATs not PSV. I say we hope for some nice bounces or Landon or Beasley being taken down in the box. May McBride and head poke one in too.i'd say get the ball to Taylor Twellman and let him do the rest. :eek:

yes, my son, this is our problem. we don't score enough goals. now, in the coming months, McBride will hit a hot streak in the EPL or DMB will knock a couple in for PSV to make us all feel comfortable, but the bottom line is our Nats don't score enough. McBride's EPL performance is almost immaterial b/c we all know that he plays a distinctly different game for the US team than he does in England. in fact i'd go so far as to say he looks like a completely different player (add Reyna to that category, btw). DMB scoring is nice, but that's not job no. 1 for him on the US team; his job for Bruce is to run non-stop up and down the wing, tiring down the opponent and eventually beating those tired legs off the dribble, in turn, creating offensive scoring opportunities.

following the US training camp the past week, it's become clear that Arena has settled on his roster. not new, of course, many already suspected that. i, stubbornly, held out hope that Arena would come up with an diamond attacker from the rough like he did in '02 with Beasley. but it has become apparent to me that Bruce has settled that we're going to war with what we've got. and that, as it is at this moment, ain't going to be enough.

yeah, but IF o'brien returns to form and bolsters the midfield. IF eddie johnson returns to his scoring pace. IF we find a right mid. IF reyna is in top form come spring. IF donovan decides not to become invisible in half of his big games. IF we find an attacking super-sub. just too many ifs for me to feel confident.

btw .. Hiddink?????? he wouldn't have the foggiest idea how to score against Italy with our limited ammunition.

[Bob Morocco]

Why Bob why?

EJ on a wing? LD on a wing? DMB in the middle? McBride alone up top?

Look if you want to play this way, drop McBride, play EJ up top. Play CMB or Convey on the right (or a real right mid if one establishes himself) and the other on the left and play Landon in a free role. But I don't know if it is worth it just based on the way PSV plays AC Milan.

It's the defensive formation, welcome to Total Football on defense. DMB is not in the middle, he is wherever Pirlo is. LD and EJ are marking Italy's wingbacks. This tactic was created to destroy Pirlo and contain a diamond midfield. My major assumption is that Italy comes out like this:

------------Buffon-----------
-------Nesta----Canna------
--GZ---------------------??--
-------------Pirlo------------
---Mauro---------Reno------
-------------Totti------------
-------Gilla-------Toni------


On offense or in transition the box and zonal scheme is used until DMB or LD can get on Pirlo and the wingbacks are marked:

------------Keller------------
-------Gooch--Gibbs--------
-Dolo-----------------Lewis-
-------Reyna--Mastro-------
------LD-----------DMB-----
--------EJ---------McB------

LD and DMB are supremely mobile so why not take advantage of that?

To illustrate say the US is using the man-marking scheme and in this shape:

------------Keller------------
-Dolo--Gooch-Gibbs--Lewis
-----------Mastro------------
-----------Reyna------------
-----EJ-----DMB------LD----
----------Mcbride-----------

0 seconds:
Pablo wins the ball from Totti, Reyna is close, LD and EJ are showing on the wings near the center circle, DMB's heading up field, and Mcbride is setting up to win a high ball.

Under 4 seconds:
Pablo passes the ball to Reyna, EJ starts burning towards the box from wide, DMB heads diagonaly towards the leftside of the box, LD comes inside to the space DMB is vacating, Mcbride is still showing for the ball.

Under 8 seconds:
Reyna passes to Mcbride who has his back to goal, LD is in the space vacated by EJ and DMB, DMB is in the space vacated by LD heading for the box, Dolo is pushed up, EJ has just run into an offside position taking Italy's LB or LCB with him.

Under 12 seconds:
Mcbride has passed back to LD, Reyna is behind and more central, Dolo is even with LD on the wing, Mcbride has turned and is heading towards the box in the inside right channel, EJ is coming back to the space Mcbride is leaving, DMB is almost in the box and almost offsides.

Under 16 seconds:
LD has seen DMB and hit a direct diagonal ball into the box for him to latch onto, Mcbride has made the near post run, EJ is heading towards the penalty spot, Dolo, LD, and Reyna are in support positions outside the box.

Backup:
If this chance doesn't materialize or we play for possesion the US has the ball set up to attack with our players in the box formation in about 10 seconds with the same runs made.

[sidefootsitter]

.... I'm not too sure that Hiddink knows that much about military history, though. Lippi is no Kesselring but the Italians won't just lay down as they did in WWII. (Bersaglieri and Alpini were notable exceptions).

As to running at Pirlo, the US midfielders lack dribbling skills and often the desire to take anyone on. The PSV players were completely opposite in their skills and esprit de corpse.

[frenil]

what does Milan have to do with the Italian NT?

[cpwilson80]

what does Milan have to do with the Italian NT?

Nesta
Pirlo
Gattuso
Gilardino

It's not perfect, but it's as good a comparison as any

[cpwilson80]

Which is why the first thing I said on the Team Italy thread was that, had I been in Lippi's $600 shoes, I'd get Pirlo some help with the second deep mids capable of going forward.

But, at this point, Pirlo-Gattuso combo seems a far likelier scenario.

Gattuso may not be a creative player, but who in a potential midfield of Pirlo-Totti-Camoranesi-4th Mid would play defense?

[cpwilson80]

On offense or in transition the box and zonal scheme is used until DMB or LD can get on Pirlo and the wingbacks are marked:

------------Keller------------
-------Gooch--Gibbs--------
-Dolo-----------------Lewis-
-------Reyna--Mastro-------
------LD-----------DMB-----
--------EJ---------McB------

LD and DMB are supremely mobile so why not take advantage of that?

To illustrate say the US is using the man-marking scheme and in this shape:

------------Keller------------
-Dolo--Gooch-Gibbs--Lewis
-----------Mastro------------
-----------Reyna------------
-----EJ-----DMB------LD----
----------Mcbride-----------


Bob, I like the thought process here...a few comments:

In the above formation, I'd replace Lewis with a dedicated defensive left back. Both Gilardino and Toni make great runs off the ball, and Onyewu and Gibbs will have their hands full with the both of them. This means we'll need help from the outside if either of the two strikers drift wide and Totti sneaks into the middle.

Also, Donovan and Beasley will need to be in the shape of their lives to both harass Pirlo and provide an offensive spark. However, pressing high up the field plays to our strength of a quick counter-attack. A minor point, but rather than have Beasely drift into the middle, I'd have him (and Donovan) pressure when Pirlo is more toward his side. Pirlo can hit a guy on the right or left foot from 50 yards away...having three players in the second wave of defense isolates Mastroeni and renders Reyna useless.