Stadium Report

[tguy24]

The city staff report for the proposed stadium.

http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/2006/agendas/committees/te/te060117/it007.pdf

what does everyone think.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Looks like they finally have a stadium design sorted out (Attachment 3) and that the final steps at City Council level are getting this Heritage Easement sorted out plus the demolition and building permits.

[Blizzard]

Looks like they finally have a stadium design sorted out (Attachment 3) and that the final steps at City Council level are getting this Heritage Easement sorted out plus the demolition and building permits.

Well that addresses one of the issues I mentioned a little while ago, the old Sports/Hockey Hall of Fame building. One has to admit, it's a good looking building and yes, it is historic.

This just bring up my old arguement that the place should have been built on the site of the old stadium. It's a big empty parking lot right now. Why not? Too late now of course but why was it not considered or if it was, why was it rejected?

[Village_Idiot]

From an outsider's perspective, it sure seems like all systems are go for the construction of this stadium, which is great for Toronto and the MLS. Congrats!

Two things I'm curious about: 1) do you anticipate any push-back from the community if a "heritage building" devoted to hockey is demolished to construct a stadium devoted to soccer? I apologize for my ignorance of the building, but this seems like something close to sacrilege in Canada!

2) How is the heritage easement dealt with? In most US jurisdictions, if the purpose for which an easement is established no longer exists, the easement is destroyed as a matter of law. I assume the easement was created in favor of the city and/or its residents... can the city simply disclaim its easement interest?

Thanks in advance for your replies.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

...do you anticipate any push-back from the community if a "heritage building" devoted to hockey is demolished to construct a stadium devoted to soccer?...

Fortunately it is no longer used for hockey. The hockey Hall of Fame moved to a different location on Yonge St. about a decade ago:-

http://www.hhof.com/html/gi100.shtml
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hockey_Hall_of_Fame

There was an attempt by a Toronto Star columnist to make an issue out of the relocation of the Canadian Sports Hall of Fame but they already have made alternative arrangements and another tennant the Canadian Motorsports Hall of Fame are are on the verge of making their relocation announcement.

The Heritage Easement Agreement is required because part of the building (2 Strachan Ave) is protected under the Ontario Heritage Act which is a piece of legislation designed to protect key city landmarks:-

http://app.toronto.ca/heritage/browseLetter.do?letter=S

Given that council has already voted for demolition of the building this shouldn't be a major obstacle by the looks of things. The plan appears to be to move the heritage portion of the building to some other location at Exhibition Place possibly as part of the new stadium design (?).

[Captain Canuck]

Sounds like something similar that was done for the Air Canada Centre, which was built in conjunction with an existing building and uses some of the historic structure.

Too bad that so few thought of Heritage when knocking down Varsity Stadium!

[Blizzard]

Sounds like something similar that was done for the Air Canada Centre, which was built in conjunction with an existing building and uses some of the historic structure.

Too bad that so few thought of Heritage when knocking down Varsity Stadium!

Absolutely. True, it was not a good looking structure but yes, there was a lot of history in that old place.

Don't quote me on this but I believe U of T is exempt from some of the criteria that the rest of the city is subject to. I was livid when they tore down their century old greenhouse at University and College but fortunately they were reassembled at Allen Gardens.

A journalist friend of mine who specializes in stadiums may have it right though. He always said that the situation in Toronto would not improve unless Varsity disappeared. As long as Varsity existed, nothing new would arise and let's face it, this new facility will blow Varsity away as a venue.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Looks like nothing can happen on a demolition permit and a building permit until February, which is not necessarily an impediment given that the building isn't vacated by the current tennants until Jan 31st. The Heritage Easement will first go to the Toronto and East York Community Council on the 17th:-

http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/2006/agendas/committees/te/te060117/agenda.pdf

and then if the sign variance is any guide to the process it goes to the full City Council on the 31st:-

http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/2006/agendas/cc.htm

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Richard Peddie wants to use the new stadium for an outdoor NHL game. The Edmonton Oilers already did this at Commonwealth Stadium and it was very successful:-

http://www.torontosun.com/Sports/Hockey/2006/01/08/1384096-sun.html

"We don't have a facility in Toronto that would be suitable right now, but when we open a soccer stadium, it would fit the criteria," said president and CEO of Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment Richard Peddie, who spoke to NHL commissioner Gary Bettman about the proposal yesterday.
.....

"No one has asked about an outdoor game for a long time, but I think it's an attractive thing," Peddie said. "It's a couple of years away, but it's something that's possible."

Good to see a lack of weasel wording in the quotes.

[Captain Canuck]

Of course, one of the other reasons why MLSE wouldn't want to do an outdoor game at the Skydome is that they wouldn't want to give Rogers their business.

[Blizzard]

Of course, one of the other reasons why MLSE wouldn't want to do an outdoor game at the Skydome is that they wouldn't want to give Rogers their business.

Of course, the soccer stadium isn't that much bigger than the ACC so you lose the cache of a massive crowd as Edmonton had.

Another impediment to Skydome is that that they usually seal it up for the winter as the facility isn't really built weatherized. There would be cost factors involved in cracking it open and then sealing it back up again.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Of course, the soccer stadium isn't that much bigger than the ACC so you lose the cache of a massive crowd as Edmonton had.

If they are thinking in terms of having the Argos there within 5 years then the stadium will be designed to be easily expandable with temporary seating.

[Blizzard]

If they are thinking in terms of having the Argos there within 5 years then the stadium will be designed to be easily expandable with temporary seating.

True but if the Leafs are looking at doing a hockey game in the stadium in the near future, they won't be looking at putting up extra bucks for temporary seating. They'll be putting in enough money on the ice surface anyway.

Also, it will still only be 35k at best. Commonwealth holds nearly 60k though I don't know how many they made available for the Habs game. It was pretty close to that IIRC.

If the Leafs want to come close to that, they'll have to use Skydome.

[RealGooner]

If they are thinking in terms of having the Argos there within 5 years then the stadium will be designed to be easily expandable with temporary seating.

Why are they still chasing this stupid Argos dream after the Argos just screwed them? I don't want a dual use soccer/football stadium. I want a SOCCER EXCLUSIVE stadium.
SCREW the ARGOS and focus on SOCCER For FS!!!!!!

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Why are they still chasing this stupid Argos dream after the Argos just screwed them? I don't want a dual use soccer/football stadium. I want a SOCCER EXCLUSIVE stadium.
SCREW the ARGOS and focus on SOCCER For FS!!!!!!

"Business not personal" as Don Corleone would say. There is a lot of money to be made from concessions by hosting 10 CFL home games. Money that would flow to MLSE and the City of Toronto rather than to Rogers at the Skydome. With unmarked fieldturf dual use soccer/football is no big deal. Fact is Toronto needs a new mid-sized stadium. Without it the Argos will be royally screwed where the rental fee and concessions are concerned at the Rogers Centre and there will be no propspect of events like the Vanier Cup being held in Toronto again. It wouldn't surprise me if a Major League Lacrosse team isn't a tennant at some point as will be the case in Rochester with Paetec Park:-

http://rochesterrattlers.com/tickets/park/

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

If the Leafs want to come close to that, they'll have to use Skydome.

The Leafs would do this for cross-marketing purposes.

[Captain Canuck]

I still am doubtful it will ever come to it though, as I suspect Rogers will eventually buy the Argos themselves, especially if they would lose the revenue their games bring to the Skydome otherwise.

[Captain Canuck]

Also, it will still only be 35k at best. Commonwealth holds nearly 60k though I don't know how many they made available for the Habs game. It was pretty close to that IIRC.



True, though I do wonder how good the view was for those fans sitting really far away in the upper echelons in Commonwealth.

[RealGooner]

I still am doubtful it will ever come to it though, as I suspect Rogers will eventually buy the Argos themselves, especially if they would lose the revenue their games bring to the Skydome otherwise.

I hope you are right!

[Blizzard]

True, though I do wonder how good the view was for those fans sitting really far away in the upper echelons in Commonwealth.

Ya, it would have been pretty bad but then again, that's not why they were there. It was the event.